# Authority of a US General **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 8, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222 "2003-04-08T02:46:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/1 "2003-04-08T02:46:06Z")
I’ve been doing some scribbling on a story which may or may not see the light of day, and I’d like to make sure that I’m getting the details right. So let’s say that a general is out in the test range on an Army base observing the test of a new piece of equipment, when out of nowhere appears a tyrannosaurus rex. The general, being an intelligent human being, realizes that the M-16’s the soldiers participating in the test are carrying, isn’t going to do squat against the t-rex. Can the general get on the radio, call up base HQ and say, “I need a tank with live ammo out here now, please.” and expect a fully armed tank to arrive within a few minutes? Or is he going to have to try and convince the person he’s speaking to that he has a _damn_ good reason for needing that tank? (Bearing in mind that if he says, “I need the tank to kill a t-rex.” the person on the end is going to think that the general has totally flipped his lid.) I’m betting that he’s going to have a tough time getting the tank out there. After he does get the tank out there, the general discovers that it’s some kind of mutant t-rex and is immune to tank rounds. So the general decides to napalm the t-rex in hopes of suffocating it. How easy is it going to be for an Army general to call up the Air Force and request such a thing? I’m betting that such a request is going to have to go through the Pentagon, before the Air Force ever hears about it. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/2 "2003-04-08T02:54:09Z")
I think he could justify it on the principle that he is authorized to protect his people and his base. If you have a T-rex running around then its pretty easy to verify even if the thing remains under foliage. Not vernerable to Tank rounds is pretty far out , even a big lizard like the T-rex is still suceptible to hydrostatic shock , so a sabot round meant for going through 4 inchs of steel the long way , is going to pretty much do some damage to the lizard. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/3 "2003-04-08T03:16:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Declan \* > \*\*I think he could justify it on the principle that he is authorized to protect his people and his base. If you have a T-rex running around then its pretty easy to verify even if the thing remains under foliage. > > Not vernerable to Tank rounds is pretty far out , even a big lizard like the T-rex is still suceptible to hydrostatic shock , so a sabot round meant for going through 4 inchs of steel the long way , is going to pretty much do some damage to the lizard. > > Declan \*\* Well, _until_ the t-rex is spotted by someone else, the general’s going to have a devil of a time convincing folks that there _is_ such a beast running around. And the t-rex is an easy example that I can use rather than explaining in detail _exactly_ what I have in mind. I suppose, nearly invulnerable velociraptors would be a better example of what I’m thinking of. (Since they’re fairly small, but quite viscious.) ---
**Author:** ![Race\_Bannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Race\_Bannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Race_Bannon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/4 "2003-04-08T03:26:26Z")
I’m not sure any real military folks will take a crack at this, so I might as well try. I’ve been involved in tests of new military equipment, and I’ve never seen a general officer on the scene. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but whenever guys like that show up, it’s usually for a very staged demonstration, rather than for getting any real work done. Anyway, any such person would likely have the job of developing or overseeing the equipment in question, and would not be in command of any actual armed forces - just as a matter of his assignment. He would, then, have to convince somebody he has a damn good reason for wanting a tank. As for calling in an airstrike? Only in the comic books. The scenario might have a little more credibility if it were a training (rather than experimental) situation. Then, at least somebody (again, not likely a general) would be in charge of some real warfighters shooting real (or practice) ammo. Oh, I forgot the “True Lies” scenario. All Arnold had to do was make a phone call, and he had Marines shooting up civilian vehicles and blowing up bridges. He wasn’t even a general. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/5 "2003-04-08T03:42:37Z")
**Race** , the general in question is a “hands on” kind of guy who’s at the test because he wants to make sure that the thing works. And I want to _avoid_ the _True Lies_ scenerio. I want the general to find an alternative to the problem rather than simply calling in an airstrike, but I want the piece to be as accurate, militarily as possible. None of this “Hollywood” BS where the general calls up the HQ and says, “I want a nuke dropped now!” ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/6 "2003-04-08T03:53:36Z")
All other things aside, I think the main thing is that the tank unit would have to be in the general’s chain of command. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/7 "2003-04-08T04:10:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hermann \* > \*\*All other things aside, I think the main thing is that the tank unit would have to be in the general’s chain of command. \*\* Um, yeah. I’ve botched the OP a bit here. Let me reword it slightly (yet again!). I’m figuring that the general _can’t_ get a tank or an airstrike in the area easily. I want to make sure that this is indeed the case, and that the general is going to have a devil of time getting a tank and/or an airstrike in the area. To do this, I need to know what the proceedure would be for a general to actually get these things to happen, and roughly how long it would take for them to happen. (Said general is going to come up with an alternate solution to his problem, but he’s going to have to at least start the process rolling because the general instinctively knows that this isn’t going to be a one shot affair and that there’s _more_ of the nasty beasts out there, even if it’s well-nigh impossible for the one nasty beast he’s sees to exist to begin with.) ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/8 "2003-04-08T04:40:41Z")
Well, let’s assume he doesn’t have control of any tank units, so he calls a buddy who DOES. I really doubt his buddy would order a tank to go without a full explanation. He would surely try to make sure his butt is covered. ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/9 "2003-04-08T04:43:06Z")
Lots of variables here. Is tank ammo handy? Are tanks able to drive there or would they have to be transported? Usually ammo is not that readily available without a ton of paperwork, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/10 "2003-04-08T05:24:36Z")
I’m going to guess that ordering tank and air support is not like ordering a pizza. Unless there is an aircraft or tank on station and the general is patched into its communication network it may take awile. > [@](#): > > Race Bannon > Oh, I forgot the “True Lies” scenario. All Arnold had to do was make a phone call, and he had Marines shooting up civilian vehicles and blowing up bridges. He wasn’t even a general I assumed that all Arnold had to do as a member of a secret government intelligence agency was call in a “BRIGHT BOY alert” (True Lies was on last night) to set a pre-set contingency plan in motion (remember, unlike our sudden T-Rex attack, they were tracking the terrorists for some time). Of course why it was necessary to blow up the causeway in Key West with Mavericks instead of simply parking a couple of Humvees across it down the road escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![lite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@lite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lite)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/11 "2003-04-08T05:27:36Z")
2 cents: the C.O. is in charge when communications are available. After that the field generals, lieutenants, etc (not sure of chain of command Colonels, Majors, et al). Point is, even “greens” in all 5 combat services learn the chain of command. No matter the level of experience, our forces know who is in in charge, based on rank. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/12 "2003-04-08T11:39:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hermann \* > \*\*Lots of variables here. Is tank ammo handy? Are tanks able to drive there or would they have to be transported? Usually ammo is not that readily available without a ton of paperwork, BTW. \*\* There’s tanks stationed on the base, and they would be able to drive there. Event takes place in peace time, so I wouldn’t expect the tanks to be loaded and ready. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/13 "2003-04-08T14:00:56Z")
If there were a tank live fire going on, it would be immeasurably faster and easier. Tanks in the gunpark? (Disclaimer: I am not a tanker) Ammo is not stored at the tank battalion level, but at the ammunition supply point (ASP). There are security scenarios for terrorist attacks whereby ammo is set aside for easy and fast access in case of this plan being put into effect, but I would not think tank rounds fall into that category of rapid response. I’d wager if the General were the Base Commander, or could convince the base commander, he could get those tank rounds released from the ASP within 15 minutes, loaded onto the truck and delivered to the tanks, which may take 45 minutes to get to the location where the dino was spotted, depending on distance from mainside. Call it an hour. A prudent general would jack up the urgency and concurrently call for air. Again, depending on the State of Alert, there may be aircraft on 30 minute alert, or 5 minute alert. The problem is, they are normally loaded for anti-air missions. (Disclaimer 2: I am not a pilot) To get a bombing run would take another ASP release, transport to airfield, loading, then takeoff and flying to location. Let’s call it another hour. Unless we had a live fire bombing training exercise, which is “Hollywood”. Real life (IMO), unless that lizard is asleep, even if nobody stands in the general’s way, he’s got a long, nervous hour before he gets rounds on target. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/14 "2003-04-08T14:58:06Z")
Since you seem to be going for accuracy, perhaps a call to the Dept of the Army’s Public Affairs office might be worth a shot - 703-695-5135. My guess is that they’d be kind of busy right now, though. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/15 "2003-04-08T15:01:10Z")
Bear in mind, UncleBill, that almsot all combat aircraft in the U.S. are armed with cannons. They would not necessarily require a bomb to finish off a dinosaur. A 20 millimetre Vulcan cannon would turn a dinosaur into hamburger - hell, a gun like that could sink a pretty fair sized ship. So the planes on standby being armed only with air-to-air missilies would not be a major disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/16 "2003-04-08T15:22:31Z")
Once an emergency is known, the military can react FAST. In San Diego, some joker got into an Army Reserve Armory and stole a tank. He then went on a rampage up and down city streets, crunching cars. He finally got himself hung up on the center divider of a freeway, and was shot to death by a policeman. (The affair is a favorite on “Police Chases” tv shows.) During the rampage, which lasted about forty minutes, word went up to Camp Pendleton, the Marine Corps training base about thirty miles north, with a request to send someone down with shoulder-launched anti-tank weapons…just in case. The weapons and crews were on the road within five minutes. So: if a real T Rex (sounds more like Godzilla!) popped up, and started shrugging off small arms fire, and even a mere Captain was able to show video of the monster, then tanks would be on carriers and moving out within minutes. As for air strikes, they might not send an armed strike at first, but an observation flight would be diverted almost immediately. The U.S. military has trained for one thing above all else: immediate response to the unexpected. They’re wondrously flexible; that’s why we tend to win. Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![WillSantini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@WillSantini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillSantini)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/17 "2003-04-08T16:25:42Z")
I work directly for a general (Commanding General of the base) and pretty much, what the general wants, the general gets. If he wanted a tank with live ammo, it would only be a phone call away. ---
**Author:** ![mipiace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@mipiace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipiace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/18 "2003-04-08T19:15:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hermann \* > \*\*All other things aside, I think the main thing is that the tank unit would have to be in the general’s chain of command. \*\* That is the most intellegent comment made here (no offense to everyone else) But the point is, the general can command whatever is IN HIS COMMAND! For the simple reason he is responsible for protecting military equipment and personnel. If he stands by and does nothing and T-REX wrecks the entire military installation, he is gonna have some ‘splainin’ to do and it’s called “dereliction of duty” However, if he calls out a tank brigade and it turns out to be an escaped balloon from Macy’s Thanksgiving parade, he’s gonna have some ‘splainin’ to do…in other words, he has the authority but better make damned sure he knows what he’s doing. He doesn’t need permission from congress to act but it has to be a prudent judgement. That is why generals make a lot of money, they have a lot of responsibility. That is why they have a lot of power, presumably, they have knowledge, experience and wisdom to make good judgements. Oh and if the general commands a tank battalion he cannot call up a squadron of F-16s without higher authority approval. It doesn’t work that way… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/19 "2003-04-08T20:15:40Z")
Now, I’m totally ignorant here, so feel free to laugh at me. But in a real attack, of whatever sort (be it Godzilla or terrorists, or anything in between), there’s likely to be a good deal of confusion, no? If a general were to call up (whomever), and say “Something’s going down here, and I’m not sure just exactly what it is, yet, but I’d like a lot of heavy firepower available pronto while I try to figure it out”, isn’t he likely to be taken seriously? ---
**Author:** ![WillSantini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@WillSantini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillSantini)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222/20 "2003-04-08T20:52:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hermann \* > \*\*All other things aside, I think the main thing is that the tank unit would have to be in the general’s chain of command. \*\* Not true. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tuckerfan_\*\* > Well, until the t-rex is spotted by someone else, the general’s going to have a devil of a time convincing folks that there is such a beast running around.\*\* Generals usually don’t have to do much explaining to anyone of a lesser rank. A call for an air strike would be very easy. I have a radio right here in my office that can contact the airfield commander. All it would take is a “do it” from the general to have jets in the air. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hermann \* > **Lots of variables here. Is tank ammo handy? Are tanks able to drive there or would they have to be transported? Usually ammo is not that readily available without a ton of paperwork, BTW.** Speaking of the base in 29 Palms, tank rounds are stored (ASP or CMA) about 2 miles away from the tank ramp. Since the general is already out on a range, it’s probably correct to say tanks won’t have too much trouble driving there. All the ammo people would need is a phone call from the general to issue tank rounds, no biggie. Not a whole lot of paperwork involved. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by msmith537_ > **I’m going to guess that ordering tank and air support is not like ordering a pizza. Unless there is an aircraft or tank on station and the general is patched into its communication network it may take awile.** Actually it’s very similar to ordering pizza, you call up, tell them what you want and where to deliver it. And of course there are aircrafts and tanks on a military base. _Communication network_ is a regular ole phone. Or the right freq on the radio. As I said above, I have a radio right here in my office that can contact any tactical unit on base, range control, and the military police. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chronos_ > **If a general were to call up (whomever), and say “Something’s going down here, and I’m not sure just exactly what it is, yet, but I’d like a lot of heavy firepower available pronto while I try to figure it out”, isn’t he likely to be taken seriously?** Yes, he’ll be taken very seriously. I’ve seen generals make a joke, and nobody laugh. Why? 'Cause you **always** take a general seriously. You don’t question his orders or think his orders are a joke. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authority-of-a-us-general/167222.md?page=2)