# Authors who started out brilliant and then turned to custard **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 3, 2009, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797 "2009-07-03T10:58:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sonnenstrahl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Sonnenstrahl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonnenstrahl)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/61 "2009-07-05T15:16:38Z")
> [@Grandknight](#): > > Gordon Korman comes to mind. > > His first few books from the late 70’s to 1992 were classics, really well written children’s books. > > The awful books he has be writing releasing today don’t compare at all to his originals. I was just thinking of him, since I just saw in the bookstore yesterday that they’ve reprinted all of the Macdonald Hall books. I think he’s a really sad case - imagine living your whole life knowing that you did your best work as a _teenager_. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/62 "2009-07-05T17:49:05Z")
**Clive Barker** went from amazing to meh pretty much on a dime. I could maybe chalk it up to his writing interests changing to an area I have a lot less interest in, but I think it was much worse than that. ---
**Author:** ![Jerseyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/63 "2009-07-05T18:04:47Z")
Some authors don’t know when to stop. I’m not so fussed about Heinlein because I find him repetitive except for _Stranger_, but Frank Herbert wrote a good trilogy that shows the paradox of Messianism and lost it up the garden path. He managed one the few _genuinely_ alien alien cultures too. His other stuff was OK though. As for the prequels his son has been churning out - no idea. Isaac Asimov is another who should have realised that a decent trilogy and others from the 50s are best left there than resurrected in the 80s when real life had sometimes outstripped the far future. (Why would robots manipulate machines? The machines would be robots themselves). Besides, he was really a detective mystery writer with a liking for a sci-fi setting. The novels he never wrote that would have been interesting would have explained how the robot-using societies developed and declined as they did in the space of three or four of their long lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/64 "2009-07-05T21:52:41Z")
It’s always hard for me to tell whether a writer is getting crap, or if they’re just running out of ideas for the series. For instance, while I haven’t read all of Card’s stuff, it seems to me that most of his really good series succeeded largely on the strength of the ideas and world. From my experience - Alvin Maker was a fascinating world, and some really interesting characters (also some stupid ones, but hey), but given that he hasn’t even finished it, I suspect he’s sort of run out of steam. Homecoming was a cool world, but it just got silly, and then the last book was seriously absurd. But then, Pastwatch was fantastic, so I don’t think he’s completely washed up. Really, I just think he’s better at ideas and worlds than follow-through. Actually, a lot of the authors in this thread are probably in the same boat - it’s really freaking hard to keep writing new, fresh stuff in the same setting for decades. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/65 "2009-07-06T00:15:48Z")
> [@Grandknight](#): > > Gordon Korman comes to mind. > > His first few books from the late 70’s to 1992 were classics, really well written children’s books. > > The awful books he has be writing releasing today don’t compare at all to his originals. He’s still writing? I loved his books when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/66 "2009-07-06T01:39:41Z")
John Norman’s first 3 or 4 **Gor** books were not all that bad, frankly. But then he went nuts with his S/M bondage themes, and I gave up after his 7th or so **Gor** title as being just too much into kinky sex. And keep in mind, I was a (relatively normal) teenaged boy at the time. But even I got squicked out. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/67 "2009-07-06T10:51:11Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > John Norman’s first 3 or 4 **Gor** books were not all that bad, frankly. > > But then he went nuts with his S/M bondage themes, and I gave up after his 7th or so **Gor** title as being just too much into kinky sex. > > And keep in mind, I was a (relatively normal) teenaged boy at the time. But even I got squicked out. Agreed. I enjoyed them up until and including 5. After that they were just an excuse for a wank-fest for the S/M crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/68 "2009-07-06T11:27:46Z")
It’d be an exaggeration to describe pulp Western writer J. T. Edson as “brilliant”, but he used to turn out some tightly plotted, nicely characterised 50,000-word stories that were agreeable to read and often amusing. He cranked out fifty-odd of these before they started to go downhill, but from then on it was downhill all the way, and frequently entailed blowing up earlier (and perfectly satisfactory) short stories into longer novels on the conceit of having acquired “fresh information from the surviving members of the Hardin, Fog and Blaze clan”. Beginning each book with an exculpatory note as to why he would be using Imperial measurements throughout and asterisking out the bad language, and footnoting these frequently throughout, didn’t help. Nor did his occasional recourse to one-sentence paragraphs. Often with exclamation marks! So when I look out for 'em now, it’s only for the handful of the earlier ones not in my collection. Anything after about 55 ain’t worth bothering with. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/69 "2009-07-06T13:30:53Z")
Both Kinky Friedman and Andrew Vachss. The whole “a guy with a bunch of crazy sidekicks who fight crime in NYC” grows stale quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/70 "2009-07-06T14:44:10Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I almost want to argue that Tom Clancy wasn’t all that good to begin with. His first books were collaborations with Larry Bond (who is an accomplished techno-thriller writer in his own right) and it seems clear that Bond did a lot of the heavy lifting, particularly in Red Storm Rising. As the series goes on, the stories just get stranger and stranger. Spoilers for the Clancyverse, which I am not going to code since the books are legitimately old now. I agree on the point of view of his writing, his early stories weren’t bad, but the writing style sucked. Some good (or passable) films were made of his earlier books, but the newer stuff is completely unreadable. Also in this vein is Thomas Harris, the author of the Hannibal Lecter books, his plots for Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs were fantastic, but his writing style was terrible. His later novels went downhill in plot, but were actually writen in better english (mostly). I’ve got to check out _Ender’s Game_ but I think I’ll avoid reading anymore Orson Scott Card [interviews](http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2000/02/03/card/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/71 "2009-07-06T14:55:26Z")
I’d like to add Nick Hornby to this list. \*High Fidelity \*was brilliant. \*About a Boy \*was pretty good. _How to be Good_ and _A Long Way Down_were both really sub-par, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/72 "2009-07-06T16:27:31Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Both Kinky Friedman and Andrew Vachss. The whole “a guy with a bunch of crazy sidekicks who fight crime in NYC” grows stale quickly. Rarely do you hear those two mentioned in the same breath. I never really got into Friedman, but I read and enjoyed quite a few by Vachss. I wasn’t sure if they got worse or if they were just the exact same book of similar quality but less interesting (although equally depressing) after having read it several times before. I’m not sure if his writing has actually gotten bad, but when Lawrence Block had Matt Scudder and Elaine at the \*symphony \*to start out his last novel in that series, I knew it was time for the series to end. It was just like “Who are these people???” ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/73 "2009-07-06T17:30:08Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I’m probably asking for trouble, but while I loved Chuck Pahlaniuk’s **Fight Club** , I’ve been disappointed by pretty much everything I’ve read of his since, except a few short stories and non-fiction pieces. Yeah, I agree. I’ve read everything he’s written— and plan on reading everything new he writes —hoping to be knocked out like I was by _Fight Club_, but it just hasn’t happened. His work has ranged from “…ehhhh, big fucking deal” to “shocking just for the sake of _being shocking_” (underwater pool drain masturbation bit in _Haunted_, I’m looking in your direction). ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/74 "2009-07-06T18:46:41Z")
> [@Sonnenstrahl](#): > > I was just thinking of him, since I just saw in the bookstore yesterday that they’ve reprinted all of the Macdonald Hall books. I think he’s a really sad case - imagine living your whole life knowing that you did your best work as a _teenager_. What, you think _Nosepickers From Outer Space_ is anthing less than a classic piece of literature? 😛 (Actually, I did enjoy _Nosepickers_ when I bought it in fifth grade. Unfortunately, my dad teases me about the title for the next five years). ---
**Author:** ![Grandknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Grandknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grandknight)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/75 "2009-07-06T23:53:01Z")
> [@Sonnenstrahl](#): > > I was just thinking of him, since I just saw in the bookstore yesterday that they’ve reprinted all of the Macdonald Hall books. I think he’s a really sad case - imagine living your whole life knowing that you did your best work as a _teenager_. I think he just ran out of ideas. There are only so many formulas of humour to write and he’s done them all. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/76 "2009-07-07T00:00:29Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > What authors started out writing one or more genuinely good books – and then, either suddenly or slowly, completely and utterly lost it? I’m not talking about one-hit wonders who had one good book and then nothing; I want long-time authors with a lot of books under their belt … but after a certain point in their career, the books are all bad. > > A few examples to get things moving: > > **Piers Anthony**. The badness of his later books are almost proverbial. But early in his career he was genuinely good. Anybody remember _Macroscope_? > > **Robert Heinlein**. A bit more controversial, perhaps. But there’s really not a lot to be said for most of his books from _The Number of the Beast_ (or perhaps from _I Will Fear No Evil_) onward. > > Others? Anthony was never very good. We were fooled by our youth and foolisness and the fact that he had one good protagonist in them. As for Heinlein–I can only answer such slander with fists, and putting him in the same category as PA makes it worse. I’ll be waiting for you on the parking lot after 7th period. :mad: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/77 "2009-07-07T10:17:02Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > Agreed. I enjoyed them up until and including 5. After that they were just an excuse for a wank-fest for the S/M crowd. The quality varied greatly from then on, admittedly; _Assassin_ was like _Ben-Hur_ with extra slave-girls and the climactic race being aerial, whereas many later volumes needed a lot of editing and far fewer lengthy rants. But there were some occasional pearls in the mudbanks. _Marauders_ worked its way up to a superb battle scene and, on the way, even had a worthy moral: Tarl Cabot accompanies Ivar Forkbeard up the Torvaldsberg in the hope of waking the founder of the country, and finding him long gone, learn a valuable lesson - when you’re in need of a legendary hero, the best thing to do is to _become_ one. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/78 "2009-07-07T12:59:42Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > Also in this vein is Thomas Harris, the author of the Hannibal Lecter books, his plots for Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs were fantastic, but his writing style was terrible. His later novels went downhill in plot, but were actually writen in better english (mostly). I’d agree on the writing for Red Dragon, which was clumsy at best. Harris is interesting for having in my opinion deliberately torched any prospect of having a franchise character for a series of novels by what he did to her in Hannibal. I can’t imagine what sort of followup he could possibly plan to that. In terms of detective/mystery fiction flameouts, Robert Parker ran out of ideas quite awhile back, not just for Spenser but for his other attempts at cop/P.I. novels. Lawrence Block was terrific for many years, but began nose-diving around the time he felt the need to inject kinky sex into his books (culminating with Small Town), and now seems to mostly write Bernie-the-Burglar tripe and stuff featuring his hired killer protagonist. The good writing is pretty much a thing of the past. And Dick Francis should really hang it up. He’s had a great career, but when it’s obvious you need helpers (now his son (in-law?), it’s time to quit. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/79 "2009-07-07T14:49:01Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I’m probably asking for trouble, but while I loved Chuck Pahlaniuk’s **Fight Club** , I’ve been disappointed by pretty much everything I’ve read of his since, except a few short stories and non-fiction pieces. And yeah, I read a couple more novels, so I guess they couldn’t have been that bad. But honestly, he reminded me a tad too much of teen horror author R.L. Stine, fake cliffhanger chapter endings and all. Or M. Night Shyamalan. I still maintain **The Sixth Sense** was great, but after that he really did/does seem like a one-trick pony. Your not alone on Chuck Pahlaniuk. I liked Fight Club and Choke, but nothing since. Lullaby had an interesting premise, but I couldn’t stand it and his horror book (can’t remember the name) about a bunch of authors going to a mansion was unbearable. I will admit that it made me squeamish when one of the authors was talking about loosing his bowels. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797/80 "2009-07-07T18:06:07Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Your not alone on Chuck Pahlaniuk. I liked Fight Club and Choke, but nothing since. Lullaby had an interesting premise, but I couldn’t stand it and his horror book (can’t remember the name) about a bunch of authors going to a mansion was unbearable. I will admit that it made me squeamish when one of the authors was talking about loosing his bowels. IMO, Chuck is uneven. \*Fight Club \*was his best. _Diary_, _Lullaby_, _Haunted_, and \*Choke \*were pretty good. I haven’t read \*Invisible Monsters \*or \*Survivor \*yet. \*Rant \*was terrible, and \*Snuff \*was execrable. _Pygmy_, though, I enjoyed. Not as good as his older stuff, but an interesting read. Apropos of nothing, Chuck is a very nice guy in person. I met him at one of his book signings. He looks (and acts) like a kindly middle-aged English professor. Who hands out life-sized severed limbs as props (I got him to sign mine) and tells stories about dogs eating semen-soaked Kleenex. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/authors-who-started-out-brilliant-and-then-turned-to-custard/501797.md?page=5)