# Auto design flaws **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035 "2012-01-01T14:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/41 "2012-01-03T16:58:01Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > I hate that in most cars, there’s no way to turn on the defrost vents without also turning on the AC. It’s spring, fall, or winter, I don’t need AC to defog my windows. The heat is enough. > > My wife’s Dodge minivan takes this another step. Turn on recirculate, and the AC also turns on. In this case, at least, the AC can then be turned off, but damn that makes me stabby. Same here. My Pathfinder has a pretty sophisticated climate control system. But if I turn off the ‘Auto’ and just set it the the mid-vents and floor vents it automatically comes on. I can turn it off but Sheese it’s 10 below zero. Why not at least tie this into the outside temp guage? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/42 "2012-01-03T17:07:46Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Have you done something to “fix” it? Remove the knob, or put electrical tape on it so it feels different, or something? > > I hate that in most cars, there’s no way to turn on the defrost vents without also turning on the AC. It’s spring, fall, or winter, I don’t need AC to defog my windows. The heat is enough. > > My wife’s Dodge minivan takes this another step. Turn on recirculate, and the AC also turns on. In this case, at least, the AC can then be turned off, but damn that makes me stabby. the AC turns on for dehumidification. it does make a difference, especially if recirc is on. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/43 "2012-01-03T18:17:50Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the AC turns on for dehumidification. it does make a difference, especially if recirc is on. I know why they set it up like that, but I can turn the AC on _myself_ if I want it. I’d rather not have the car make that choice for me. Especially in the case of the defroster, where it won’t even let me turn it off. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/44 "2012-01-03T18:17:54Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the AC turns on for dehumidification. it does make a difference, especially if recirc is on. Oh I know. But this is not when I’m running the upper defrost vents. I would like to be the one to Decide when to use it. Not much moisture in the air when it’s 10 below. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/45 "2012-01-03T19:19:00Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > > [@It's Not Rocket Surgery!](#): > > > > [Here’s a photo of the Jetta’s door.](http://buyersguide.roadandtrack.com/media/eVox/stills_0320/7650/7650_st0320_039.jpg) > > I’m still not quite following what the problem is… I think **It’s Not Rocket Surgery!** is referring to the very pointy bit of door behind the window, on the left-hand side of the image. I can definitely see the problem with this design. If you’re like me, you occassionally bump against the door when getting in or out, and with such a pointy bit sticking out instead of a continuous line from the top to the bottom of the door, I foresee a lot of bruises around the hip area, and the potential for serious parking lot/garage damage. My dad had a car with a similar door design (can’t remember what kind - maybe a Fiat?) and I do recall that the little corner bit was bent and scratched quite a bit, likely from banging into stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/46 "2012-01-03T19:21:12Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m slightly confused as well. I understand the A Pillar being in the way, but the mirror has to be mounted somewhere and where ever it is, it’s going to block whatever is in front of it. Having said that, [here’s](http://buyersguide.roadandtrack.com/media/eVox/stills_0640/7919/7919_st0640_039.jpg) the door of a Honda Insight. My 2008 Civic may have been like that as well, but I don’t remember. Either way, it seems like all you’re doing is moving the blind spot…sort of a necessary evil. Oh, I think I get it now. On the Jetta, there is about two or three inches of exterior door that extends to cover part of the B pillar – right at the window line of the door. I still don’t quite understand what this has to do with being more likely to cause injuries to drivers or make the door more likely to hit things. I mean, one can see the door clearly, it isn’t an irregular shape, and I guess I just don’t understand why the shape of the window relative to the door has anything to do with injuries and damage. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/47 "2012-01-03T19:35:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, I think I get it now. On the Jetta, there is about two or three inches of exterior door that extends to cover part of the B pillar – right at the window line of the door. > > I still don’t quite understand what this has to do with being more likely to cause injuries to drivers or make the door more likely to hit things. I mean, one can see the door clearly, it isn’t an irregular shape, and I guess I just don’t understand why the shape of the window relative to the door has anything to do with injuries and damage. 😕 It’s the shape of the door relative to the window that’s the problem. If I bash my hip on [this door](http://image.automobilemag.com/f/auto_shows/6704166+w440/04_det_01+2005_saturn_relay_open_door+front_side_view.jpg), it’s going to mostly glide across it with little damage. On the Jetta door, I might well end up with a scrape or open wound from that corner bit. Likewise, if I hit my garage wall with a smooth door, it’s going to do…not much. If I hit it with a sharp corner, I’m probably going to put a hole in my drywall. Now imagine instead of my garage wall, I’m parked in a tight spot next to your car and it’s my 6 year old carelessly flinging open the door… ---
**Author:** ![JimboJamesJimmersonIII\_Esq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/54ee81/32.png) [@JimboJamesJimmersonIII\_Esq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimboJamesJimmersonIII_Esq)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/48 "2012-01-03T20:35:27Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > I know why they set it up like that, but I can turn the AC on _myself_ if I want it. I’d rather not have the car make that choice for me. Especially in the case of the defroster, where it won’t even let me turn it off. This also drove me crazy. Depending on your car, there may be a way to shut this “feature” off. For example, in the Honda CR-V it is the following procedure: To deactivate automatic A/C feature on 2002-up CR-V. 1. Turn vehicle OFF. 2. Turn fan knob OFF. 3. Turn temperature knob all the way to the LEFT (BLUE AREA). 4. Turn vent knob to panel only setting (next to MAX A/C). 5. Hold down both the air recirculation button and the A/C button while starting the car. 6. Continue holding the buttons for 7 seconds until the air recirculation button stops flashing. To reactivate automatic A/C feature on 2002-up CR-V. 1. Turn vehicle OFF. 2. Turn fan knob OFF. 3. Turn temperature knob all the way to the LEFT (BLUE AREA). 4. Turn vent knob all the way to the RIGHT (DEFROST position). 5. Hold down both the air recirculation button and the A/C button while starting the car. 6. Continue holding the buttons for 7 seconds until the air recirculation button stops flashing. 7. After the 7 seconds described in step #6, the recirculation button will start to flash. Continue to hold the buttons for another 7 seconds. After this, the A/C light will turn to green and it’s finished Search around and you may find a method for your particular vehicle. If the engineers at Honda were bright enough to build in a work-around, other manufacturers may have as well. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/49 "2012-01-03T20:40:40Z")
> [@JimboJamesJimmersonIII\_Esq](#): > > This also drove me crazy. Depending on your car, there may be a way to shut this “feature” off. For example, in the Honda CR-V it is the following procedure: > > To deactivate automatic A/C feature on 2002-up CR-V. > > 1. Turn vehicle OFF. > 2. Turn fan knob OFF. > 3. Turn temperature knob all the way to the LEFT (BLUE AREA). > 4. Turn vent knob to panel only setting (next to MAX A/C). > 5. Hold down both the air recirculation button and the A/C button while starting the car. > 6. Continue holding the buttons for 7 seconds until the air recirculation button stops flashing. > > To reactivate automatic A/C feature on 2002-up CR-V. > > 1. Turn vehicle OFF. > 2. Turn fan knob OFF. > 3. Turn temperature knob all the way to the LEFT (BLUE AREA). > 4. Turn vent knob all the way to the RIGHT (DEFROST position). > 5. Hold down both the air recirculation button and the A/C button while starting the car. > 6. Continue holding the buttons for 7 seconds until the air recirculation button stops flashing. > 7. After the 7 seconds described in step #6, the recirculation button will start to flash. Continue to hold the buttons for another 7 seconds. After this, the A/C light will turn to green and it’s finished > > Search around and you may find a method for your particular vehicle. If the engineers at Honda were bright enough to build in a work-around, other manufacturers may have as well. Holy moly! I think you forgot the part about jumping up and down on your left foot, patting your head, rubbing your tummy and whistling “I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy!” ---
**Author:** ![JimboJamesJimmersonIII\_Esq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/54ee81/32.png) [@JimboJamesJimmersonIII\_Esq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimboJamesJimmersonIII_Esq)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/50 "2012-01-03T20:48:30Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Holy moly! > > I think you forgot the part about jumping up and down on your left foot, patting your head, rubbing your tummy and whistling “I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy!” A bit ridiculous, isn’t it? It’s certainly not something you’ll stumble upon by chance. I don’t think they put it in the owner’s manual either. Everyone needs a reason to go back to the dealership for maintenance, right? ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/51 "2012-01-03T21:21:51Z")
I don’t think it’s a design flaw, but I hate the unframed windows on Subarus. It just seems flimsey. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/52 "2012-01-03T21:25:32Z")
> [@Reeses\_Monkey](#): > > The design flaw that makes me nuts is in my '98 Forester. There’s a nifty little cupholder that slides out of the dash. It has a drop-down bottom to hold the cup in place. > > Right in front of the climate control knobs. :smack: My wife used to have a '97 Outback wagon. Same issue. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Accident](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Mr.Accident](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Accident)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/53 "2012-01-03T21:52:39Z")
93 Ford Aerostar van. To change the spark plugs, you have to remove part of the dash board, and the right front tire. I forget the make/model, but to check the transmission fluid, you have to crawl under the back of the vehicle, remove a plate covering, reach up and stick your finger into the pipe to see if it needs filling. To add more fluid, you have to do the same thing, and use a pump to get the fluid to the pipe. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/54 "2012-01-04T12:42:18Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Same here. My Pathfinder has a pretty sophisticated climate control system. But if I turn off the ‘Auto’ and just set it the the mid-vents and floor vents it automatically comes on. I can turn it off but Sheese it’s 10 below zero. Why not at least tie this into the outside temp guage? The little light might come on at -10 but the AC won’t as the air going through the system is already a bunch colder than the AC would cool it to. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/55 "2012-01-04T14:00:02Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > The little light might come on at -10 but the AC won’t as the air going through the system is already a bunch colder than the AC would cool it to. So the compressor won’t kick in? That’s all I’m really concerned about. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/56 "2012-01-04T14:05:38Z")
Nope. The gas pressure inside the AC system drops as the temp of the refrigerant drops. If the refrigerant is below about 45F the pressure will be so low the compressor won’t kick on. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/57 "2012-01-04T14:15:59Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Nope. The gas pressure inside the AC system drops as the temp of the refrigerant drops. If the refrigerant is below about 45F the pressure will be so low the compressor won’t kick on. Cool. Thanks Rick. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/58 "2012-01-04T14:29:02Z")
My dad had an old car. It was a smallish two door hatch back. The side windows did not have those little wing thingies you could turn to direct air into the car. So if you rolled down the windows you got lots of noise but very little air flow. Which would not have been so bad by itself. The car also had a very strong AC unit and heater (probably made for a full sized sedan). What made these things together bad was you could NOT turn them off. Either the heater was on or the AC was on. So when the weather was moderate (which it is about half the time around here) you had to constantly keep switching between heating and cooling. We have a Jeep Liberty. To tow it you have press a tiny button. If you listen carefully you’ll hear a faint clunk, then a tiny led light comes on for a just a few seconds. Seems to me that led light could be run by the battery for many months at least. I’d rather that light stay on rather than trust my memory or my significant others because sometimes you “remember” doing something that you just meant to do but actually did not do. Oh, and the first time we towed it we got a suprise when we got to where we were going. The manual did not tell you how to get it out of neutral. It took us about 10 minutes to figure it out. I think the worst feature though is 4WD. You have 2WD that you can easily switch into 4WD, which is fine. You also have 4WD low where you really arent supposed to be going very fast and recommended top speed is something like 15 mph. Around here half the trick to not getting stuck is going fairly fast. But what makes this worse is you have to be moving to go from 4WD to 4WD low. So, I generally need to be in 4WD so I can move fast, but if it looks like I am starting to get stuck I’ll have to hit that switch in the short interval between almost stopped and stopped. ---
**Author:** ![lurkedtolong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@lurkedtolong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkedtolong)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/59 "2012-01-04T17:05:21Z")
This is more of a design flaw of the past that was fixed, but does anybody remember side view mirrors being on the front of the hood? I just remember seeing that growing up in the 70’s and I don’t see it ever now. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035/60 "2012-01-04T17:36:18Z")
those are still relatively common in Japan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/auto-design-flaws/608035.md?page=2)