# Autobiographies/Memoirs With Deliberate Factual Misstatements Or Lies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702 "2010-01-05T01:03:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/41 "2010-01-05T18:51:03Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > As for mine–I read Ronnie Spector’s autobio where she says she had no idea that Phil Spector was married when she started her affair with him, but later says she met his wife after he’d divorced her and the ex-wife was all forgiving and nice to her. Darlene Love, in her own autobio, seems to doubt this, and in a separate bio of Phil Spector, someone describes a scene where the wife walked in on Phil and Ronnie embracing in Phil’s office and got really angry. As much as I love Ronnie I think this whole forgiveness/absolution from the ex-wife is a fabrication. This is interesting. Ronnie Spector/Darlene Love used to perform a Christmas show together. Now they do their performances separately. Still fantastic either way but I always wondered if they had a falling out. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/42 "2010-01-05T18:54:54Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > This is interesting. Ronnie Spector/Darlene Love used to perform a Christmas show together. Now they do their performances separately. Still fantastic either way but I always wondered if they had a falling out. Didn’t they do an Xmas show together this year…I think in Jersey? I didn’t go to that one–just the one that Ronnie Spector did at BB King’s (off topic, but very awesome! Did you see either of them this year?). I did notice a lot of bitchy stuff from Darlene Love in her own autobio about Ronnie. Just the way she talked about Ronnie being very sex kittenish but kind of implying her voice wasn’t all that…and then she mentioned that the song that she (Darlene) sang, “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)” was originally meant for Ronnie but was later given to Darlene. It just came off as a bit catty. Sorry if this is getting off topic…maybe I should take this to PM… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/43 "2010-01-05T19:16:25Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Peter Wright’s [Spycatcher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spycatcher) became a best seller due to the British government’s attempts to ban its publication. Unfortunately it turned out later to mostly be rubbish but Wright appears to have been more a disgruntled nutcase than a deliberate liar. Really? I read that many years ago and was fascinated, and watched the political fallout with interest - but I’ve never heard that it was a fabrication. Have you got a source for that? I submit Graham Chapman’s _A Liar’s Autobiography_. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/44 "2010-01-05T19:25:46Z")
According to one of Twain’s biographers, Twain is supposed to have noticed that fabrications were creeping into his **Autobiography** , but I don’t know by what authority they claim this, not which incidents are supposed to be not altogether true. I’ve read the whole thing, and it is marvelous and no part is obviously false. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/45 "2010-01-05T19:36:05Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Didn’t they do an Xmas show together this year…I think in Jersey? I didn’t go to that one–just the one that Ronnie Spector did at BB King’s (off topic, but very awesome! Did you see either of them this year?). > > I did notice a lot of bitchy stuff from Darlene Love in her own autobio about Ronnie. Just the way she talked about Ronnie being very sex kittenish but kind of implying her voice wasn’t all that…and then she mentioned that the song that she (Darlene) sang, “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)” was originally meant for Ronnie but was later given to Darlene. It just came off as a bit catty. > > Sorry if this is getting off topic…maybe I should take this to PM… This is way OT but… I didn’t see either of them this year (Darlene Love was also at B.B King’s). I wanted to go but you couldn’t reserve a table and I didn’t want to deal with standing. Not sure about them in New Jersey this year. I know Darlene Love did her Christmas show in Jersey (NJ Pac?) last year but that was solo. I can see Darlene Love being catty. She shouldn’t be but it’s sort of understandable. She never had the kind of name recognition and fame Ronnie Spector had despite having one of the most spectacular voices in pop/rock/r&b history. She’s 71 now and it hasn’t faded at all. Ronnie Spector is a good singer, has a good presence and her voice is distinctive but it’s thin and doesn’t measure up in comparison to Love. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/46 "2010-01-05T19:49:55Z")
Muhammad Ali’s throwing of his gold medal into the river. This anecdote first appeared in Ali’s 1970s “autobiography,” which was written by Richard Durham, and edited by Herbert Muhammad (son of Elijah Muhammad). Ali had very little input into his “autobiography” and didn’t even read it until years later. Apparently, the gold medal story was too good to let go, though. In the 1996 Olympics, Bob Costas told the story and said that it wasn’t true, that the medal had just become lost. Yet, just a few years later, in a newspaper interview, Ali was claiming it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/47 "2010-01-05T20:15:02Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > This is way OT but… > > I didn’t see either of them this year (Darlene Love was also at B.B King’s). I wanted to go but you couldn’t reserve a table and I didn’t want to deal with standing. Not sure about them in New Jersey this year. I know Darlene Love did her Christmas show in Jersey (NJ Pac?) last year but that was solo. Yeah–I went a couple of hours early (like a little before 7 which was when doors opened, to get a table). > [@](#): > > I can see Darlene Love being catty. She shouldn’t be but it’s sort of understandable. She never had the kind of name recognition and fame Ronnie Spector had despite having one of the most spectacular voices in pop/rock/r&b history. She’s 71 now and it hasn’t faded at all. Ronnie Spector is a good singer, has a good presence and her voice is distinctive but it’s thin and doesn’t measure up in comparison to Love. Yeah–even though I’m a huge fan of Ronnie Spector, I do think you’re right about Darlene Love. It’s a shame she never got the recognition, and it’s sad that two of her best songs (He’s a Rebel and He’s Sure the Boy I Love) are considered to be Crystals’ songs, by those who don’t know. Do you have PMs enabled, or e-mail? I would love to continue this little chat in a different forum… ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/48 "2010-01-05T20:23:23Z")
In his book, Burt Reynolds says that one of the hillbillies actually did try to rape Ned Beatty and even whipped it out while shooting the infamous “squeal like a pig” scene in Deliverance. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/49 "2010-01-05T21:17:28Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > In his book, Burt Reynolds says that one of the hillbillies actually did try to rape Ned Beatty and even whipped it out while shooting the infamous “squeal like a pig” scene in Deliverance. Slight exaggeration. I can’t vouch that Burt is telling the truth, but what he DID say is that actor Bill McKinney, who played the redneck rapist, was a Method Actor who tended to go overboard and got a little crazy when getting into character. Reynolds CLAIMS that, the morning of the shoot, McKinney was running around the woods naked. Not that reynolds minded- Burt said that his own sense of humor was a bit twisted, and he got a kick out of McKinney’s antics. (BTW, McKinney appeared regularly in small roles in Clint Eastwood’s pictures.) IF Reynolds is to be believed (and I’m not sure if he is), McKinney improvised much of the scene, and Ned Beatty wasn’t ready for how far he’d go. And IF Reynolds is to be believed, he had to pull McKinney off Ned to end the scene. For what it’s worth, McKinney denies it completely. But I have a friend who met McKinney on the set of the TV Western “Ned Blessing,” and she says McKinney will re-enact the rape scene at the drop of a hat, just to get laughs. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/50 "2010-01-06T04:29:00Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Do you have PMs enabled, or e-mail? I would love to continue this little chat in a different forum… I should have PM’ing enabled. I’ve never used it before but I checked and it looks like it’s set to work. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/51 "2010-01-06T11:13:26Z")
Not sure if it is “autobiography/memoirs” but one of the most famous baseball books is Lawrence Ritter’s “The Glory of their Times” from 1966. Ritter did a number of oral interviews with players from 50-60 years earlier. Probably the most gripping story was that of New York Giants pitcher Rube Marquard who told of estrangement for years from his father, hitching the rails, etc Research a few years ago revealed much of what Marquard was made up. When asked about this Ritter said the first tape recorder broke and when he had Marquard give his story a second time. he gave virtually the exact same speech that made Ritter feel it was rehearsed (Marquard in his day appeared in vaudeville shows with his wife Blossom Sealy). Ritter published it figuring it was Marquard’s story. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/52 "2010-01-06T19:41:45Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > I should have PM’ing enabled. I’ve never used it before but I checked and it looks like it’s set to work. Hmm…still not letting me send you an email or PM when I click your name… ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/53 "2010-01-06T20:30:03Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Hmm…still not letting me send you an email or PM when I click your name… My bad, had the wrong thing checked. It should be fine, now. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/54 "2010-01-06T22:31:56Z")
Lillian Hellman’s memoir “Pentimento” is supposed to a great big bowl of b.s., especially the whole bit about engaging in espionage in nazi-era Germany (that was turned into the Jane Fonda movie “Julia”.) ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/55 "2010-01-07T00:34:44Z")
A more serious example is Winston Churchill’s five-volume history of the Second World War which omits any reference to the British cracking of Enigma, the German military cypher, which was still a state secret at the time he published the history. If he had been able to discuss the information the British gained from this coup, many of the incidents he discussed would have had to be re-written. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/56 "2010-01-07T01:03:03Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > David Niven wrote two immensely entertaining books about Hollywood that are said to be highly embellished. Supposedly he used other people’s stories as his own. _Bring On the Empty Horses!_ For some reason I loved that book as a pre-teen. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/57 "2010-01-07T13:11:46Z")
The first was _The Moon’s a Balloon_ which was great fun to read. Niven was a great raconteur and loved to tell a good story. I had no idea that any of his stories were borrowed. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/58 "2010-01-07T14:16:59Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Bob Dylan’s “Chronicles-Volume One” Just a hijack - I have no idea what specific events you are asserting never happened, but given the approach that Dylan was taking - describing how he found his voice as an artist, NOT writing a true autobio - I wasn’t reading it for factual accuracy. That’s not the point of the book. Which, by the way, is brilliant; I describe why in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523900). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/59 "2010-01-07T14:25:16Z")
Patty Duke’s autobiography details her brief marriage to Michael Tell, annulled after thirteen days on the grounds of non-consummation. And it well may be true that she never consummated the marriage, but she knew she was pregnant when she married him… and she believed her pregnancy was the result of an affair she’d had with the already-married John Astin. As it happened, she would later marry Astin and he adopted the baby, Sean. But Sean was always told that John was his biological father. (“Isn’t it silly that my own father had to adopt me?”) Patty said “the timing was wrong” for Sean to be the child of her only other paramour at the time, Desi Arnaz Jr. DNA testing would later reveal that Sean’s biological father was… Micheal Tell. ---
**Author:** ![I-VI-ii-V](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@I-VI-ii-V](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I-VI-ii-V)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702/60 "2010-01-10T01:57:41Z")
_Beneath the Underdog_ by jazz bassist/composer Charles Mingus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autobiographies-memoirs-with-deliberate-factual-misstatements-or-lies/523702.md?page=4)