Me, I’ve only owned AT’s. May I add I’ve never had to fear for my life merging. Though if I lived, say, at the far end of a steep road waaay up in the hills, or had to do some REAL off-road work I’d definitely recognize the superiority of a manual. Maybe it’s just not so much a “control” issue to me.
Anyway, *Quasi, there are models that are not available with manuals, period.
What I’d be looking for would be to keep the Manual transmission while deleting the stickshift driver’s attitude
Well, now that the sticksters have spoken up, let me put in a good word for unloved and misunderstood automatic transmission.
Both my first wife and Mrs. Kunilou would rather have a stick, all other things being equal. Not me. Just give me a car with a powerful enough engine and enough torque to get on the highway quick and I’m fine, thank you.
No clutch-brake-gas rocking back and forth on hills. No having the engine lug down in stop and go (or even slow and go) traffic. No accidentally throwing it into fifth when you were trying to shift into third. No free hand to hit the turn signal, smoke a cigaret, flip the bird to the idiot behind me, etc.
I don’t buy this being one with the car, either. Let’s face it. I drive maybe 11-12,000 miles a year. About 85% of that is going to and from work, the mall, running the Kunilou kids around ,etc. Maybe another 10% is out on the highway for long trips. I’d be in 5th gear all that time, anyway. That leaves maybe 600 miles a year where I’d have a genuine opportunity to be one with the car. 12 miles a week where I can look forward to all the inconveniences in the preceeding paragraph.
You don’t say “VVVVVVVVVRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM” in public? I say “VVVVVVVVVRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM” in public. All the time. VVVVVVVVVRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!
The only mistake I made when I bought my Cherokee was ordering it with an automatic transmission. It doesn’t shift when I want it to, and does shift when I don’t want it to. All of my previous cars had standard transmissions; the last one a Porsche 911, and there were three MGBs and a Porsche 924 back there as well. After driving sports cars for so long, my “driving style” doesn’t go with automatic transmissions.
My next vehicle will have a standard, 5-speed transmission. It will accellerate better, offer me more control, and will be more efficient.
That sums it up for me. The problem isn’t so much the auto box in and of itself. It’s that bloody converter that gives the auto the name “slush box”. I’ve driven a wide range of cars of both types, and for me the manual box gives enough of a power advantage to offset the auto’s supposed ease of use. I’ve burned off six cylinder 3.8 litre autos at the lights (not something I like to do in a macho sense, but often it is necessary in traffic to merge, etc) in my little manual 1.6 litre four cylinder econobox simply because the very instant I decide to let the clutch “bite”, I’m moving. The autos always have that Annoying Delay[sup]TM[/sup]. The delay is less in a modern automatic to be sure, but it’s still there. Any delay or sluggishness in response can be downright dangerous in heavy traffic. Also, if I need to get off the line quickly, I can have the engine revs up to the desired level before I drop the clutch. An auto, on the other hand, always has to start from way back at idle (unless you want to risk engine or tranny damage).
Another point I don’t agree with is the stop-start traffic thing. I actually reckon a manual is easier in this situation. When I’m going from a stop to only a few miles an hour, then back to a stop, just a little up and down work on the clutch will do all I need. In an auto, I’d be constantly hefting my right foot back and forth between the acelerator and the brake.
The problem is the mindset. Yes, a manual can be a pain in the arse if you are learning for the first time. If you’ve driven an auto skillfully for years and you get in a manual for the first time, you’ll be lurching and stalling and cursing the thing. That’s what puts people off. But in only a day or two, the whole thing will “click”, and you’ll feel responsiveness you’ve never felt before in a car, and think “Heyyyyyy. I think I like this!” And modern manual cars are very forgiving. The action is slick, the clutches are gentle, and you can put it into the wrong gear (rare for most people) without making a complete goose of yourself. Turn a corner in third when you really should have been in second, and your car’s modern torque-y engine will deal with it with a minimum of complaint. Your passengers probably won’t even notice.
The basic, older automatic gearboxes are fairly straightforward. The modern ones have all sorts of extras and improvements such as “sports” and “economy” modes, converter locks, etc -you pay more for these things. But manual gearboxes have had all of these things for a century -they are called THE DRIVER. Want to save fuel? No problem, just keep the revs steady and change up as early as you can. Want “sports mode”? Then just wind 'er out through the gears.
The gearstick holds no mystery. It doesn’t deserve the fear some people have of it. It’s just another control. When you learn to drive, you’ll naturally be a bit dodgy on the brake, steering, and accelerator. Stick and clutch are no different. After a week or two you will be doing it all er… automatically.
Manuals are faster, more fun, more economical, and cheaper to buy. I like 'em.
I’m currently driving a slushamatic Caravan, but only because so few manufacturers still sell a stick that I couldn’t find any used.
My original Caravan was a 5-speed. It used to boggle the minds of people who accepted rides with me. (I almost had to make a special appointment for the stupid Ohio EPA check, because they only had one guy at the local site who “did” sticks.)
Quasi - You keep driving that automatic and I will continue to happily fondle my stick as I make my way through the world. I’ve been fondling a stick for such a long time I don’t think there’s anything that would change me.
I do have a van with an automatic tranny, primarily because Lola hates driving a stick and because finding a minivan without an automatic is nearly impossible.
I went without my car and drove the van for a while and only after I put the car back on the road did I realize how much I missed all those gears, the horsepower, the suspension, and the VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!! I’ve got some horses to go with the tranny… heh heh heh.
Tom - I get the same thing from people as they assume that Thunderbirds only come with automatic trannies. Most turbo-coupes (like mine) are equipped with the same wonderful Borg Warner T-5 tranny that mine came with.
It shifts like a knife through warm butter. I wouldn’t trade that feeling for anything.
We have one of each - the Aerostar is automatic and the Beetle is a 5-speed. The stick is definitely more fun, but then again, a Beetle is more fun than a mini-van. However, the automatic is nicer when you’re eating or drinking while driving… and it’s lots easier to talk on the phone or put on makeup…
Ow ow ow ow ow… I’m joking! It’s humor! really! I don’t do those things!! At least , not when I have to be shifting. I’ll snarf down a fry or take a slurp of soda if I’m on a deserted straight-away on clear weather when there’s no traffic for miles…
It’d be nice if my Aerostar had the response of the Beetle but it’s not like driving is a big deal. Go to work, go to the store, go home, go back to the store… <sigh>
I stand up to be counted among those who like to row their own. Unfortunately at the moment I don’t own a car with a manual. I very much would have preferred manuals in all my cars. But the car I have always loved, and just got around to buying used a couple months ago(Subaru SVX) wasn’t built with a manual option(The only stupid thing Subaru did wrong with those cars, they are a masterpiece otherwise.) A manual is actually safer for me to drive. I hate it when on a two lane road, and I go to pass an RV, but the auto tranny fumbles around for a few seconds before deciding that I mean it and down shifting to give me some oomph. The other thing is when the tranny suddenly decides to shift on ice, breaking the tires from the road. But the SVX has a great traction control system, and plenty of power, so I can’t really bitch about safety. I just love the feeling of taking a cutback on a mountain road, easing through the start, and roaring out of the turn with just the right amount of power, something you can’t modulate as well in an automatic.
The Auto is great when it comes to driving in Denver traffic jams though. One time with my old Suby I counted that I had to clutch over 900 times on the way home, since a manual can’t slush its way along at 1.5 Mph very well.
I hate Autos. Even my truck, which is an old Ford I just use to haul stuff around, has a stuck shift. A column stick, 3 on the tree, baby, and even THAT is preferable to an auto.
[hijack]
I have a 5spd 4.0L 98 2 door Cherokee, Johnny. The only problem with it is that Chrysler only rates the manual tranny with a 2000LB towing capacity with a manual transmission. I’ve read on some boards that that is kind of a under-rated, but still … it doesn’t give you a lot of confidence if you want to tow a measly 3000LB trailer.
As has been noted before, a slush box is an excuse for bad drivers. So you can’t coordinate the gear lever, clutch pedal and accelerator? Heaven forbid :eek: If you can’t get this right I personally wouldn’t let you on the road (:mad:rant etc)
The greatest pleasure I get from driving is doing it right, hill starts, overtaking, every little manoeuvre (that also incidently requires a manual.)
I admit, my car is just an appliance that I would gladly do without if I could. Give me an automatic and let those who think driving is fun have their Standard.
P.S. I am not knocking folks who get immense enjoyment from their cars, everone has their own gig, right?
