# Autonomous robot people could be constructed right now **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 6, 2024, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540 "2024-03-06T14:01:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/81 "2024-03-07T21:17:44Z")
After I fed my simulated machine person with realistic updates on charging until that was complete. At this point it just decided it would stay in the kitchen awaiting instructions or some other reason to do something, so in that respect, my experiment has reached a point of failure, but I think this is probably just a combination of the fact that ChatGPT is inherently a subservient toady, plus the crude, hasty makeshift nature of my experiment. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/82 "2024-03-07T21:21:23Z")
This is pretty cool: Humanoid robot acrobats. > ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/83 "2024-03-07T21:43:44Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The guiding operator is another neural model that continually prompts the other one saying “here’s what you can see and feel, what are you going to do?” I already took that into consideration. That is not an operator, it’s part of the machine. And it does not introduce autonomy. That’s only an engine to drive the machine. An operator is antithetical to the concept of autonomy. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/84 "2024-03-07T21:55:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So the AI keeps insisting that the number of protestors doesn’t change its logic even as it provodes different answers seemingly at random. If the nearest bridge would be the one with protestors on it. As opposed to the next nearest bridge. Then only the second response was inconsistent. Maybe try again, giving names to bridges? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/85 "2024-03-07T21:58:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > the set of things we have _claimed_ to do is always larger than the set of things we _could_ do or _have_ done. Not in cases where there is an incentive to keep a secret, such as bleeding edge R&D. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/86 "2024-03-07T22:07:29Z")
I disagree. It’s perhaps analogous to an internal monologue. I can’t help wondering if it’s just the definition of autonomy that might be the sticking point here. What’s yours? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/87 "2024-03-07T22:23:37Z")
As I thought, Disney is making claims that are playing fast and loose with the concept of autonomous. > **[Are You Ready for Sentient Disney Robots? (Published 2021)](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/business/media/disney-parks-robots.html)** > > Some of the animatronics at Disney’s parks have been doing their herky-jerky thing since the Nixon administration. The company knows that nostalgia won’t cut it with today’s children. > **[AUTONOMOUS CHARACTERS - Walt Disney Imagineering](https://sites.disney.com/waltdisneyimagineering/autonomous-characters/)** > > AUTONOMOUS CHARACTERS ADDING LIFE THROUGH ENGAGING INTERACTIONS Connecting with characters is a hallmark of the Disney Parks experience. But sometimes those connections come by surprise – from a chance encounter on a stroll through the park to making... ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/88 "2024-03-07T22:29:18Z")
How are you defining ‘autonomous’? In industry, an ‘autonomous’ robot is one that can simply do a set of tasks without human intervention. A Roomba is an autonomous robot. The opposite of an autonomous robot is one that is fully operated by a human (telerobotics, micro manipulation, etc), or which is in a fixed location carrying out a fixed program, like a Fanuc robot on an assembly line. But if a robot can handle decision-making to the extent that it can perform tasks in a complex environment without specifically being programmed for the task, it’s an autonomous robot. Roombas can detect jewelry on the carpet and put it in a special tray. They can plug themselves in when needed, and navigate the house without help. That makes them fully autonomous. Are you using autonomous as a synonym for sentient? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/89 "2024-03-07T22:38:50Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > As I thought, Disney is making claims that are playing fast and loose with the concept of autonomous. “Pay no attention to the man behind the screen”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/90 "2024-03-08T00:29:21Z")
The Disney spiderman thing is little more than a self balancing marionette. Certainly a more impressive piece of machinery than I could build, but it’s not really in the same category as the other stuff we’ve been discussing in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/91 "2024-03-08T01:00:00Z")
Yes, my point exactly. Yet note the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/92 "2024-03-08T01:17:33Z")
Did you look at the link I posted with the Disney robots doing aerial tumbling routines? I thought that was pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/93 "2024-03-08T02:23:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Are you using autonomous as a synonym for sentient? The idiots that write NY Times article titles apparently are… ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/94 "2024-03-08T04:50:54Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I can’t help wondering if it’s just the definition of autonomy that might be the sticking point here. What’s yours? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Are you using autonomous as a synonym for sentient? IMHO not sentience. Full circle to my first post, (and I know **Sam\_Stone** didn’t direct his question to me) > [@Max\_S](#): > > My approach is to examine “autonomous” in the context of “autonomous robot people”, as used in the title. Not merely “autonomous” as an independent word. > > Autonomous at its core means self-governing, or self-driven. But it has a special connotation when referring to “people” (or animals, even). Consider what makes human people autonomous, or rather, why some human people _lack_ autonomy. A human infant, for example, is hardly considered autonomous. It is entirely dependent. Yet it is beyond question that infants possess all five qualities. Infants demonstrate intent, agency, and volition. While infants do possess reflexes, often times they reach and grab with clear purpose. Yet only later does a child acquire autonomy. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/95 "2024-03-08T04:57:05Z")
Yeah, maybe we should zero in on a firmer definition. ‘Autonomous’ is really an overloaded term here and will probably cause confusion. There’s a specific meaning for it with respect to robots, and is in the context of a task or set of tasks. Maybe ‘universally autonomous’? A UA robot is one that behaves autonomously through the entire spectrum of possible actions or possible tasks, like a person could be trained to be. That’s a term I just made up, but does it fit your meaning? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/96 "2024-03-08T04:57:47Z")
Not at all. I’m applying the definition of autonomous that makes sense when talking about _people_. ETA: I don’t think it depends on training. There are an infinite number of actions I am not trained to do, but I still have autonomy. A roomba is perfectly capable of doing its intended job, but it doesn’t have autonomy in the sense that an autonomous person would. I mean, you still need an operator to empty the vacuum bag and occasionally guide it to the charging pad. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/97 "2024-03-08T05:20:27Z")
Can a robot be autonomous under your definition without being sentient? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/98 "2024-03-08T05:23:17Z")
Sentience is already included in the criteria from the OP (senses, perception, as defined there)… More to your point. The word autonomous as I’m using it (, and as I’m reading it in “autonomous robot people”) only applies to people. And all people are sentient. Even infants who lack autonomy. You keep on saying “robot” but keep in mind, in the phrase “autonomous robot people”, “robot” is an adjective. I accept as a premise that the machine envisioned by OP is sentient. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/99 "2024-03-08T07:45:27Z")
So, “autonomous” is somewhat akin to “independent”? The thing infants lack that renders them not autonomous? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540/100 "2024-03-08T07:45:29Z")
Sentience is a loaded term in this discussion as many will interpret it to mean: having an inner thought-life comparable to that which humans experience - the sense that we are ourselves a living and aware being inside of our bodies. That’s a whole philosophical mess that just isn’t worth going into here, because ultimately its not resolvable anyway - there’s no specification to make it and there’s no solid test for its existence; people have devised tests such as the mirror test and the random sentence test, but any time something non-human passes those tests, exceptionalism kicks in and humans just start looking for ways to redefine it so we’re still God’s special creation. I did say: > [@Mangetout](#): > > Of course, I am not arguing that such a machine would have any inner experience of consciousness or anything like that My specification for the robot I am postulating here is: something that behaves to some extent as though it were an independent person; performing activities, being capable of movement and handling, sensing the environment, communicating, making choices, being granted the freedom to pursue its chosen activities, whatever they happen to be; autonomous here specifically means: **not a slave or servant or robot monkey butler.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autonomous-robot-people-could-be-constructed-right-now/998540.md?page=6)