# Autos with camera functionality as witnesses to crime **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776 "2024-09-04T15:24:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/21 "2024-09-05T18:22:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > They’re not just jacking cars and rummaging through the cameras willy nilly. Sure they’re not. The accidently found that dead hooker in the trunk while downloading the camera data. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/22 "2024-09-05T18:24:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Who is paying for the towing and impounding for days or weeks of the cars? What if the car is damaged while towing? Who pays for that? Or my rental car because they seized my only transportation. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/23 "2024-09-05T18:27:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If you are in the habit of backing up your video to the cloud (many are, these days, if i were “auditing” the police, i certainly would be) there’s really no reason not to give them a copy if they assert it might help their investigation. Not doing it if it assists in their investigation of some BS law they made up about me filming them in public. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/24 "2024-09-05T18:48:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Or my rental car because they seized my only transportation. If you can get a rental car early enough in the morning. I’m hardly ever in a hotel when Enterprise (they deliver) opens at 9 (or 10)am; frequently gone _hours_ earlier. If it was your only/last day in that location, then you’d need the rental again/long enough to get back to that location since most people don’t get a hotel room in their neighborhood which means a second trip, more gas & tolls & possibly a day off of work as well. If everyone agrees that you are not even a person of interest in whatever crime your car may have recorded how is this not unreasonable search & seizure? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/25 "2024-09-05T18:54:55Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > If everyone agrees that you are not even a person of interest in whatever crime your car may have recorded how is this not unreasonable search & seizure? My question exactly. Why can’t they just subpoena the video? And I can see a case where they get a warrant and then find something illegal in your car or perform a civil asset forfeiture on that $1000 you just pulled out of the bank. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/26 "2024-09-05T18:55:22Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > If everyone agrees that you are not even a person of interest in whatever crime your car may have recorded how is this not unreasonable search & seizure? Well, so far it has really only happened _once, in one city._ from our 2nd cite- _Oakland police officer Roland Aguilar obtained a search warrant to tow three vehicles, including a Tesla Model X with Kansas plates, writing in a court affidavit, “This video could provide valuable information relevant to the ongoing investigation.”_ - _Therriault said he and other officers now frequently seek video from bystander Teslas, and usually get the owners’ consent to download it without having to serve a warrant. Still, he said, tows are sometimes necessary, if police can’t locate a Tesla owner and need the video “to pursue all leads.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/27 "2024-09-05T19:10:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My understanding is if the police can reasonably say it is part of their investigation of a crime they can seize a recording as evidence of that crime. But they can do that without seizing the car. THAT’S the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/28 "2024-09-05T20:07:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The accidently found that dead hooker in the trunk while downloading the camera data. what do you mean by “dead” ??? She clearly was alive when I put her in the trunk last week!!! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/29 "2024-09-05T20:50:48Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > If everyone agrees that you are not even a person of interest in whatever crime your car may have recorded how is this not unreasonable search & seizure? Probably 30 years ago my garage was burgled overnight. The bad guys stole a bunch of power hand tools: drill motors, skil-saws, hedge clippers, etc. They had been caught later that night with several houses’ worth of booty in their car’s boot. My goods were already in the police evidence locker before I awoke to discover & report the crime. Over a year later I got my tools back, none the worse for wear. Of course I’d had to replace every one of them meanwhile because I needed to use them. All this seems both quite ordinary and definitely vexing. But hardly a constitutional issue. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/30 "2024-09-05T21:04:05Z")
Different scenarios, in your case they recovered items before you were able to get them back & I’m guessing you could have submitted a claim to your homeowners/renters insurance. In this scenario PD is the one taking your item. Would any insurance cover you for expenses in this scenario? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/31 "2024-09-06T00:55:44Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But they can do that without seizing the car. THAT’S the issue. Yes, if they can find the owner, such as what happened in the first of the three instances in the cites. But in the second example, the owners could not be found. In the 3rd example- it has no business even being in the article- the murder was committed IN the car. Yep, they will tow and impound your car then, no matter the make, model or if there is a recording. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/32 "2024-09-06T01:57:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But in the second example, the owners could not be found. So get a warrant. Open the door. Open the glovebox. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/33 "2024-09-06T05:08:49Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So get a warrant. Open the door. Open the glovebox. They did. How? Does every car store their data the same way? Would a police officer know that? And remember, the Oakland police are not … weel.. shall we say…_sophisticated._ ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/34 "2024-09-06T05:48:01Z")
I would think the same rules that cover a crime that a ring or[ another version of the same }would catch would apply ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/35 "2024-09-06T12:10:19Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > there’s really no reason not to give them a copy if they assert it might help their investigation. Well, if in helping with their investigation you expose yourself to criminal charges that’s a reason. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/36 "2024-09-06T13:34:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > > If the video has a narrator, the narrator will always mention that you (as a bystander) are _not_ required to hand over film footage to the police if you’re filming them in their course of duties. What’s the straight dope on this? > > My understanding is if the police can reasonably say it is part of their investigation of a crime they can seize a recording as evidence of that crime. I’m not following the logic there. How is someone filming the police while they’re doing an investigation in any way evidence of the crime they’re investigating? The police would need to have reasonable suspicion that the person filming them also filmed or was involved with the crime. As I understand it, yes the narrator is correct, so long as you’re not interfering with the police and you’re in a public place like on a sidewalk or park. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/37 "2024-09-06T13:35:08Z")
Exactly. How do I know a cop is being honest in their assertion and not trying to fuck me? Unless the car is literally near an event like a recent terrorist bombing and the suspect is on the loose, get a warrant and speak to me through an attorney. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/38 "2024-09-06T13:39:59Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > How do I know a cop is being honest in their assertion and not trying to fuck me? Assume they are trying to fuck you until your attorney believes otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/39 "2024-09-06T20:55:44Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So get a warrant. Open the door. Open the glovebox. > [@echoreply](#): > > Teslas don’t save an hour of recording, they save recordings made in the last hour, which is a very important distinction. So when the car is parked and turned off, any recordings made in the last hour of driving are saved. When the car is turned back on (for example, by opening the door), any recordings older than an hour are deleted, unless they were explicitly saved (through manual or automatic methods). > > Sentry mode is similar. It will save the previous hour of recordings, plus any 10 minute period in which an event occurs. So even if sentry mode recorded an event, the video file may have been deleted by the time the evidence is going to be collected. > > The deleted videos may be able to be recovered, which means that the USB drive should really go into the hands of an expert, rather than just some random cop who’s going to plug into a laptop to copy the files. I highly doubt PD is going to get a warrant w/in an hour. They may not even know about the crime for over an hour. Depending upon jurisdiction, beat cops may not do that. They’d need to wait for a detective to get on scene to even see there’s a Tesla that they may want video from & then fill out paperwork & get it approved before they even have their warrant. Can they even use an electronic warrant or does it need to be printed out to serve someone (probably jurisdictionally based answer) @echoreply, Do you know how easy/hard it is to get that USB out of the car, is it as simple as opening the glove box & removing a memory card or is it buried & one needs to disassemble the dash to get at it? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776/40 "2024-09-06T21:02:36Z")
The USB stick is either in the center console or the glovebox. If it’s in the center console, it takes just a second to yank. The glovebox is locked and needs the car to be unlocked to get into, though I’m sure it can be popped open easily enough with a prybar. On the other hand, my setup uses a Raspberry Pi with battery backup that auto-uploads videos to my home wifi when I get home. Any cop pulling that out isn’t going to know what to do with it. Even if they spot the SD card, it’s probably not formatted in a way they can access. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/autos-with-camera-functionality-as-witnesses-to-crime/1006776.md?page=3)