# Avatar: Now that you've actually seen it. No spoilers in OP **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626 "2009-12-17T11:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/501 "2010-01-03T17:15:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It would have been awesome to see Sigouney Weaver in one of those mecha suits, by the way. Even if it was just for a few seconds. This is dangerously close to Wooshing me. I have seen other posters make similar comments WAG, based on a DirecTV commercial : Weaver was in Aliens [Another Cameron, right?] and she was in a Mech for that? She said some line? (Probably couldn’t draw the kiddos in to see the film with that line, even though Rogue 1 let the B bomb, and others fly.) It would amaze anyone to know the movies I have yet to see, Aliens [all of them] Jaws [All of them] merely start the list. Rocky, Die Hard, Leather Weapon, [All of them] as well, and it goes from there. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/502 "2010-01-03T17:19:25Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > They are so strong, that the new arrows go straight through the copters’ windshield and human flesh in the fight. > > The first batch of arrows hardly even cracked the glass. To the point that It seemed to be a knife at a gun fight. I wonder how an English longbow would compare to a plains Indian bow. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/503 "2010-01-03T17:20:51Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > WAG, based on a DirecTV commercial : Weaver was in Aliens [Another Cameron, right?] and she was in a Mech for that? She said some line? (Probably couldn’t draw the kiddos in to see the film with that line, You are correct, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/504 "2010-01-03T17:23:55Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > This is dangerously close to Wooshing me. I have seen other posters make similar comments > > WAG, based on a DirecTV commercial : Weaver was in Aliens [Another Cameron, right?] and she was in a Mech for that? She said some line? In _Aliens_, the “powerloader” is a mech-like exoskeleton shown early on as a futuristicky forklift of sorts. For the climactic battle, Weaver’s character improvises it into a battlesuit to even the odds against the alien queen, starting the fight with the classic line (as the queen menaces Newt, a child to whom Weaver has become attached): “Get away from her, you _bitch!_” The suit has more brute strength than the queen, though the queen is somewhat faster. It’s a cool chickfight. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/505 "2010-01-03T17:25:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Someone earlier in the thread said that it was the extra momentum of the swooping air attacks of the mounted archers that added the force to the arrows. I don’t recall the scenes well enough to know if that was the case. That was me: > [@Grumman](#): > > Because they were making diving attacks, adding the speed of their mounts to the speed of their arrows, and they were also firing at right angles to the glass, making their shots less likely to just glance off the sloped surface. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/506 "2010-01-03T22:23:47Z")
My issue with the “extra momentum of the swooping attacks” thing is that _modern_ military gunship and fighter aircraft glass is bulletproof (more or less), so by 2154 and operating on alien planets, I’d expect them to have everythingproof glass. The worst arrows should be doing to it is scratching it, not matter whether they’re fired from the ground or the back of a swooping technicolour Pokemon-Dragon thing. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/507 "2010-01-03T22:43:05Z")
The Navi have a poetic license for many things. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/508 "2010-01-03T22:57:41Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > swooping technicolour Pokemon-Dragon thing. Hey, if they weren’t in the specifications, don’t blame the engineer. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/509 "2010-01-03T23:32:19Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > My issue with the “extra momentum of the swooping attacks” thing is that _modern_ military gunship and fighter aircraft glass is bulletproof (more or less), so by 2154 and operating on alien planets, I’d expect them to have everythingproof glass. The worst arrows should be doing to it is scratching it, not matter whether they’re fired from the ground or the back of a swooping technicolour Pokemon-Dragon thing. Unless the arrowheads are made of some heretofore unavailable alien material. You know, one that might be difficult to, say, obtain. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/510 "2010-01-04T02:51:44Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > My issue with the “extra momentum of the swooping attacks” thing is that _modern_ military gunship and fighter aircraft glass is bulletproof (more or less), so by 2154 and operating on alien planets, I’d expect them to have everythingproof glass. The worst arrows should be doing to it is scratching it, not matter whether they’re fired from the ground or the back of a swooping technicolour Pokemon-Dragon thing. I’m just wondering why we didn’t see more dropping of rocks into the ducted fans on the vehicles. Incidentally, I think I know why the fans are so small… one of the books linked somewhere recently said that Pandora’s atmosphere is 20% denser than Earth’s, but the planet only has 80% of Earth’s gravity. I think that bog one had auxilary jets. I did see jet modules on the _shuttle_ that could point down. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/511 "2010-01-04T03:15:33Z")
I too have thought of how the heck their arrows can penetrate. Not only did I take into account the increased speed differential but also the increased weight of the arrow relative to earth arrows. Navi arrows are at least twice the size in all dimensions as earth arrows, making them more than 8 times as heavy as large earth arrows, and the combined speed of the helis, mounts, and arrow have to be several hundred miles per hour. If the weight of the Navi arrow were 10 pounds and were hitting at merely 200 miles per hour, it would have around the same energy as a 50 cal bullet. (I forget if that’s about what the rogue helicopter pilot, whose bullets did penetrate, was firing or if it was more of an autocannon.) ETA: and of course the _momentum_ is much greater than a 50 cal bullet, but I don’t know enough about impact dynamics to know which one is the dominant one in this instance so I am being conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_Next\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@Girl\_Next\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_Next_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/512 "2010-01-04T04:03:07Z")
Meh. It was “Dances with Wolves” meets “World of Warcraft”. I liked Titanic better. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/513 "2010-01-04T04:05:24Z")
Wow. Largest 3rd weekend ever. Now 4th of all time, passing Dark Knight. I don’t think it can pass Titanic, but it will be the #2 of all time. > **[Top Lifetime Grosses - Box Office Mojo](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross/?area=XWW)** Impressive, even if you didn’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/514 "2010-01-04T04:24:17Z")
> [@Girl\_Next\_Door](#): > > Meh. It was “Dances with Wolves” meets “World of Warcraft”. I liked Titanic better. But Titanic was just Titanic! Also was totally predictable. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/515 "2010-01-04T12:19:15Z")
I read that it kept almost its entire audience/sales in weekend 2, which is a sign that it’s going to be a big one. How’d week 3 go? ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/516 "2010-01-04T16:51:53Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I read that it kept almost its entire audience/sales in weekend 2, which is a sign that it’s going to be a big one. How’d week 3 go? 68 million in weekend three, pretty good really. That’s only a 12 percent drop from week one to week three. For a little context, twilight 2 went from 142 million to around 15 million in it’s third week? Also, it now has 1 billion worldwide which makes Jim Cameron the only director with 2 movies to gross 1 billion. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/517 "2010-01-04T17:44:59Z")
I have only been stopped in seeing again by the fact that most available showings in the 3D Imax are tightly packed. I’ve never seen anything like this with an Imax showing, even The Dark Knight. I hope it is extended, seems they’d be idiotic not to, but you never know. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/518 "2010-01-04T17:49:13Z")
> [@drm](#): > > Also, it now has 1 billion worldwide which makes Jim Cameron the only director with 2 movies to gross 1 billion. So to obliquely answer the question in the other thread on this - it was Titanic, not Waterworld in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/519 "2010-01-04T18:29:53Z")
I saw it in Imax 3-D and thought it was okay. No real characters at all in the movie. The only character I knew by name was Grace. Everyone else was completely generic. If I remember the cast right, there was The Hero, The Girl, The Military Guy, The Unfeeling Corporate Boss, The Shaman, The King, and The Prince. It was just archetypes, no name necessary. Contrast that to Star Wars, or Terminator. Everyone had names that you remembered. Also, I didn’t like or care about The Hero. He was an asshole. I didn’t _want_ him to live happily ever after. I wanted him exposed for the lying ass he was and then he should have been killed by the Navi. Also, the whole movie should have just been done CGI. There was really no reason not to. **Avatar** wasn’t a terrible movie, but **District 9** was better in every way. It was both more subtle & more relevant in it’s social commentary, better scripted, better filmed, better pacing, better direction, better acting (by far) and it had lots less stupid in it. It also looked better than **Avatar** to me. And in D9 I knew the characters names, because they were characters in the story, not merely archetypes. I’ve watched D9 3 times since I got it 23 December. I’m not sure I’d want to sit thru Avatar again. Even in my, um, enhanced viewing state, I was ready to walk out at the 1hr 50m mark. I mean, I knew how it was going to end (Navi win! The Hero gets to be a Navi!) by then, and it was all just formulaic bullshit to get there. This movie will ride the hype, no doubt, but it will never be as big a cultural phenom as the hype makes out. It will never equal Star Wars, Star Trek, Terminator, etc. as a driving cultural force because there is really so little of note in it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/520 "2010-01-04T18:50:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No real characters at all in the movie. The only character I knew by name was Grace. Everyone else was completely generic. If I remember the cast right, there was The Hero… > > [snip] > > Also, I didn’t like or care about The Hero. He was an asshole. I didn’t _want_ him to live happily ever after. I wanted him exposed for the lying ass he was and then he should have been killed by the Navi. So the hero who was an “asshole,” of whom you seem to remember quite well, is "completely generic? Okaaay. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Contrast that to Star Wars, or Terminator. Everyone had names that you remembered. The only reason I remember most of the characters from Star Wars is because they’ve been beaten into me through decades of references. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If I remember the cast right, there was The Hero, The Girl, The Military Guy, The Unfeeling Corporate Boss, The Shaman, The King, and The Prince. It was just archetypes, no name necessary. If we’re going to play the 'pigeonhole the characters as an archtype game, Star Wars easily falls victim to the same trap. The noob, the scoundral, scoundral’s pet, the princess, the effemniate robot, the wise one, the evil dictator, etc, etc. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > **Avatar** wasn’t a terrible movie, but **District 9** was better in every way. It was both more subtle & more relevant in it’s social commentary, better scripted, better filmed, better pacing, better direction, better acting (by far) and it had lots less stupid in it. I feel the **exact** opposite. I thought District 9 was a great premise horribly executed. Avatar did it much better. I will say while D9’s effects were seamless, they weren’t mind-blowing like Avatar’s, imo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=27)