# Avatar: Now that you've actually seen it. No spoilers in OP **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626 "2009-12-17T11:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/521 "2010-01-04T19:46:19Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > So the hero who was an “asshole,” of whom you seem to remember quite well, is "completely generic? Okaaay. Yes. He has no name. I didn’t even know his name until I read thru this thread. It doesn’t take a lot of effort to remember that he was a detestable jackass (in other words, a really poor choice for a hero). He is generic in the sense that he has no underlying motivations, no personality, no backstory (other than “crippled” and “twin brother”). I mean, what was his motivation for helping The Military Guy? > [@](#): > > The only reason I remember most of the characters from Star Wars is because they’ve been beaten into me through decades of references. Bullshit. Within days of the initial release, more than half the country knew who Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, etc. were. The characters all had names. **Avatar** really had no memorable characters; it had memorable images. > [@](#): > > If we’re going to play the 'pigeonhole the characters as an archtype game, Star Wars easily falls victim to the same trap. The noob, the scoundral, scoundral’s pet, the princess, the effemniate robot, the wise one, the evil dictator, etc, etc. See above. > [@](#): > > I feel the **exact** opposite. I thought District 9 was a great premise horribly executed. Avatar did it much better. I will say while D9’s effects were seamless, they weren’t mind-blowing like Avatar’s, imo. They were nice, but I’ve seen the same (or better) in the intro movies that World of Warcraft makes. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/522 "2010-01-04T19:51:14Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > I didn’t know that but hearing the word “unobtainium,” I laughed out loud. I don’t think anyone else caught it. But come one, unobtainium? Really? Yeah, same here. Hearing the word in reference to an actual mineral took me right out of the movie. I would have thought that Cameron would have known better than to insert such a stupid joke. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/523 "2010-01-04T19:52:24Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Bullshit. Within days of the initial release, more than half the country knew who Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, etc. were. The characters all had names. **Avatar** really had no memorable characters; it had memorable images. Bullshit my ass. If you can disprove that I didn’t feel they were memorable characters, go right ahead! I also don’t think not-remembering a character’s name is a good barometer for whether a character is memorable. My current favorite movie, The Wrestler, has two of the characters I’d consider most memorable in recent years, but I have no idea what their names are, as it’s largely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/524 "2010-01-04T19:56:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I mean, what was his motivation for helping The Military Guy? Loyalty to a fellow ex-Marine? You know, the same reason Quaritch was offering to help him get his legs back? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/525 "2010-01-04T20:10:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Also, I didn’t like or care about The Hero. He was an asshole. I didn’t _want_ him to live happily ever after. I wanted him exposed for the lying ass he was and then he should have been killed by the Navi. I never thought of “the Asshole as Protagonist”, but you may have a point. I think “Loser as Protagonist” may be a better term. Harry Potter becomes “special” and able to defeat the bullies when he is found to be a wizard; Jake becomes “special” when he gets an Avatar. Your average guy, like, say, Yours Truly who isn’t special (and a few million other fellows) can identify with them. 🙂 You want the Navi to kill him because he cooperated with the Marines? I think his pathway to being special begins when he decides that the Company and its mercenaries are in the wrong and that he shouldn’t help them. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/526 "2010-01-04T20:17:40Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Loyalty to a fellow ex-Marine? You know, the same reason Quaritch was offering to help him get his legs back? There’s no such thing as an ex-Marine. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/527 "2010-01-04T20:21:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yes. He has no name. I didn’t even know his name until I read thru this thread. It doesn’t take a lot of effort to remember that he was a detestable jackass > (in other words, a really poor choice for a hero). He is generic in the sense that he has no underlying motivations, no personality, no backstory (other than “crippled” and “twin brother”). I mean, what was his motivation for helping The Military Guy? I thought it was clearly spelled out. Jake mentions in voiceover, early in the movie, that the medical technology exists to repair his spinal injury, but it’s prohibitively expensive and he can’t afford it on his Marine pay. Later, Military Guy (okay, I admit I can’t remember his name or even hearing it) offers to use his influence to make sure Jake gets his operation if, in exchange, Jake is willing to go “undercover” and get him the intel he heeds. He’s doing it to get his legs back. > [@](#): > > Bullshit. Within days of the initial release, more than half the country knew who Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, etc. were. Agree with this. I saw the movie in the theater when I was 11 years old, and I was one of those rare individuals who only got to see it _once_ in the theater (movie excursions were a rarity in my family and we only saw it because of my non-stop begging after seeing the TV commercials), yet the next day I could remember and name every significant character, and many of the minor characters. Of course, it’s worth noting that the characters’ names were repeated often in the dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/528 "2010-01-04T20:49:09Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > There’s no such thing as an ex-Marine. 😉 Other than Lee Harvey Oswald. ---
**Author:** ![ElectricZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@ElectricZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElectricZ)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/529 "2010-01-04T22:13:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I just saw it. I enjoyed it for what it was… > Trying make the characters more ambiguous or “deep” would have just made the movie boring as shit. \*. I have to disagree, because I thought the movie was boring as shit just for that reason. The characters were completely stock following a storyline that has been recycled a dozen times which meant there was zero suspense. Not once did I worry about the characters’ fates or the ultimate resolution of the conflict because I knew how it was going to turn out, each and every step of the way, to the point of correctly guessing which characters would be sacrificed for an emotional impact that was lost on me because I already didn’t care. It reduced the movie to a very pretty screensaver for me, and long before 2 hours 40 minutes was up, I was ready to go. Character development, done properly, can make people talking in an empty room engaging and exciting. (Inglourious Basterds for example) Maybe since the room wasn’t empty, the filmmakers felt they could skimp on the rest and no one would care. Enjoying it for what it was isn’t possible for me because I don’t enjoy lazy filmmaking. Avatar reminded me a lot of the Star Wars prequels. Cameron, like Lucas, was bound by nothing when making his movie… and this was the best he could come up with? Either he just didn’t care, or aimed squarely at the middle. In either case, I didn’t feel it was worth my hard earned eight bucks… Though I’m glad I saw it on the big screen because if I had waited to see it at home, it would have lost what impact it had on the strength of the effects alone. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/530 "2010-01-04T22:19:55Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Other than Lee Harvey Oswald. Was there some kind of ex-communication ritual because he wasn’t always faithful? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/531 "2010-01-04T22:22:42Z")
> [@ElectricZ](#): > > Not once did I worry about the characters’ fates or the ultimate resolution of the conflict because I knew how it was going to turn out, I thought the love interest was toast when she was hiding behind a tree and Chesty Puller & Company were walking towards her. I figured the buddy was toast when his Avatar was killed. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/532 "2010-01-04T22:33:58Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought the love interest was toast when she was hiding behind a tree and Chesty Puller & Company were walking towards her. Not me … I thought, given the evident intent of the plot to pander, that the love interest would survive and that the hero would become his avatar so they could live happily ever after. It would have been better I think to have been wrong in this, and for something more unexpected to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/533 "2010-01-04T22:38:34Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It would have been better I think to have been wrong in this, and for something more unexpected to happen. Fair enough, but I don’t think unexpected = always better. Every Pixar film is entirely predictable, yet that doesn’t prevent them from being fantastic. ETA: Well, most of them… (stupid Cars) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/534 "2010-01-04T22:42:23Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Fair enough, but I don’t think unexpected = always better. Every Pixar film is entirely predictable, yet that doesn’t prevent them from being fantastic. > > ETA: Well, most of them… (stupid Cars) And yet Cars is one of the most popular amongst the intended age group. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/535 "2010-01-04T22:48:21Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Fair enough, but I don’t think unexpected = always better. Every Pixar film is entirely predictable, yet that doesn’t prevent them from being fantastic. > > ETA: Well, most of them… (stupid Cars) I think a very predictable plot _can_ be good, if it has something else going for it - in particular, strong memorable characters, or some life kicked into an old story. Here, the “life” was entirely the result of the setting and visual impact. Which was admittedly awesome (I thought). As a work of art though, its characters were meh and its plot somewhat dragged. It would have been even more awesome if that amazing setting and visuals were married to interesting and memorable characters and an absorbing, less by-the-numbers plot. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/536 "2010-01-04T22:50:22Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > And yet Cars is one of the most popular amongst the intended age group. 😉 Heh reminds me of watching _Dora the Explorer_. I hate it because the episodes are _entirely_ predictable - they all follow exactly the same formula, almost to a “T” - but the three year old kids love it. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/537 "2010-01-05T00:25:43Z")
Very late to the party on this one. I do have a question though: Why is it that every sort of technology in this future world has managed to progress by leaps and bounds allowing all sorts of wonders, and yet the best the company can do to mine an ore is strip mining? really? really? I know, I know, the whole movie would not even happen if evil bad guys didn’t have to tear up the ground to get what they want, but I can’t help thinking that with the way strip mining is viewed in 2010 that in 150 years we’ll have found something better and more cost effective than moving 100 tons of earth for every little ounce of the stuff you want. Otherwise a very pretty movie. It did have some very giggle worthy lines and my husband started humming the theme song from Pocahontas. I’m glad I saw it in the theater, because I’m afraid the visuals will not hold up the lousy script on the small screen. (I can’t watch Titanic all the way through. I missed it in the theater and on a tv the script is just a joke. I alternate between laughing and groaning.) Wouldn’t it be nice if imaginative, rich movie makers would hire script writers to flesh out their visions? Then we wouldn’t be subjected to very pretty movies with lousy scripts. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/538 "2010-01-05T00:39:13Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh reminds me of watching _Dora the Explorer_. I hate it because the episodes are _entirely_ predictable - they all follow exactly the same formula, almost to a “T” - but the three year old kids love it. I sort of can understand complaining that the story of Avatar was childish, but complaining that the story of Cars was childish is childish. ;p ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/539 "2010-01-05T00:41:56Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I sort of can understand complaining that the story of Avatar was childish, but complaining that the story of Cars was childish is childish. ;p Who complained that Cars was childish? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/540 "2010-01-05T01:05:34Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > …Why is it that every sort of technology in this future world has managed to progress by leaps and bounds allowing all sorts of wonders, and yet the best the company can do to mine an ore is strip mining? really? really? > … Anything else would cost more money. Even a less invasive method under the giant tree would probably result in structural problems above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=28)