# Avatar: Now that you've actually seen it. No spoilers in OP **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626 "2009-12-17T11:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/582 "2010-01-10T23:44:10Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Nobody’s perfect. 🙂 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/583 "2010-01-10T23:47:46Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > 3.) Intelligent trees as home to people who live in harmony with it? Where have I seen this before? Alan Dean Foster’s _Midworld_? Some of it feels like Philip Jose Farmer’s _The Stone God Awakens_. Actually if anyone should be suing for intellectual property theft it’s Sid Meier - Avatar rips a LOT of elements from the story of the game Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri, namely that it’s set in the Alpha Centauri system, the world has been destroyed by corporate greed and the alien world encountered is basically one great mind made up of the biological components that live on it. We even have people transcending their bodies, for crying out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/584 "2010-01-11T00:26:38Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Actually if anyone should be suing for intellectual property theft it’s Sid Meier - Avatar rips a LOT of elements from the story of the game Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri, namely that it’s set in the Alpha Centauri system, the world has been destroyed by corporate greed and the alien world encountered is basically one great mind made up of the biological components that live on it. We even have people transcending their bodies, for crying out loud. As fond as I am of Sid Meier and his games- and in particular _Alpha Centauri_ (Where’s the Vista/Windows 7 Re-Release, Sid???)- I’d be extraordinarily surprised in the setting for _Alpha Centauri_ wasn’t more or less entirely cobbled together from various sci-fi Canon and tropes (the “set-up” for _Alpha Centauri_ is pretty much straight from Robert A. Heinlein’s _Orphans Of The Sky_, for example). Or, to put it another way, I’d say someone else did the “Planet as a bio-mind with everything interconnected” thing way before Sid Meier or even Douglas Adams… ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/585 "2010-01-11T00:40:12Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > 2.) Why are they looking for the ironically-named _unobtainium_? They ought to be trying to mine _Upsidaisium_ from _Rocky and Bullwinkle_. That’s they only thing that can be holding those Hallelujah Mountains up. really – they don’t give a word of explanation in the movie. I know I’ve seen similar things in SF art, but in a story or movie you expect at least lip service for things that go against common experience. They never name the mineral in the movie. $cienoBoy calls it that, once, but he’s not calling it by name, he’s being snarky. I’ll bet we’ll see deleted scenes on the DVD with more about that. If Cameron had known how obsessed some people would be about that stupid name, he probably wouldn’t have treated it so nonchalantly. ---
**Author:** ![AmericanMaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@AmericanMaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmericanMaid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/586 "2010-01-11T01:02:19Z")
I finally got around to seeing the movie and I loved it. It was everything I wanted from a movie - it was stunning visually and I cared about the characters. In fact, I went with my parents (ages 57 and 77) and both loved the movie. Heh, the second Ana Lucia ( I forget her Avatar character name) walked into the brig, I turned to my mother and whispered, “Shit’s going to happen.” I also was really happy that the whole 3D experience wasn’t lost on me. When I was a kid, those red and green glasses did nothing. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/587 "2010-01-11T01:04:49Z")
> [@](#): > > They never name the mineral in the movie. $cienoBoy calls it that, once, but he’s not calling it by name, he’s being snarky. And how, indeed, do you know that? The movie gives no indication that it’s Management being snarky. I could easily see engineers calling it that, somewhat ironically, and having the name stick. There are real names in the world of science that are just as weird, and have such a genesis. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/588 "2010-01-11T01:14:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > And how, indeed, do you know that? The movie gives no indication that it’s Management being snarky. I could easily see engineers calling it that, somewhat ironically, and having the name stick. There are real names in the world of science that are just as weird, and have such a genesis. You said you weren’t interested in reading the thread, where all this has been discussed numerous times. People involved in the movie have said that the mineral is never named. People involved in the movie have acknowledged that “unobtanium” is a silly word based in pulp SF. Ribisi’s character was being snarky, not calling it by name. That’s why I said that a scene that would have satisfied you and others like you was probably left on the cutting room floor, or perhaps written but not filmed. I have no idea, but to repeat myself, if Cameron had known that people were going to obsess on such a silly, stupid thing, he probably would have made sure it was in the film. But then again, maybe not. A lot of people (not saying you or pointing fingers) like to have everything laid out and explained to them like children who have not yet gained the ability to connect A to C without someone telling them that B comes between them. No filmmaker, least of all James Cameron, needs to pander to those kinds of people. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/589 "2010-01-11T01:21:05Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > …Ribisi’s character was being snarky, not calling it by name… You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/590 "2010-01-11T01:25:04Z")
> [@](#): > > if Cameron had known that people were going to obsess on such a silly, stupid thing, he probably would have made sure it was in the film I think you’re reading it wrong – to me this shows that Cameron is very much “in the know” about the meaning of the word. It’s a very knowing wink at SF conventions, and doesn’t _need_ an extra scene explaining it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/591 "2010-01-11T01:45:42Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > You said you weren’t interested in reading the thread, where all this has been discussed numerous times. People involved in the movie have said that the mineral is never named. People involved in the movie have acknowledged that “unobtanium” is a silly word based in pulp SF. Ribisi’s character was being snarky, not calling it by name. You’re wrong. The companion book [Avatar: A Confidential Report on the Biological and Social History of Pandora](http://www.amazon.com/Avatar-Confidential-Biological-History-Camerons/dp/0061896756/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263173272&sr=1-2), which was prepared in cooperation with Cameron, gives a rather detailed two-page history of the discovery and properties of unobtanium. It remarks that the name is derived from “unobtainium,” a word used by late twentieth century investigators for an ideal high-temperature superconducting material that apparently did not exist. When such a compound was discovered to actually exist on Pandora, it was dubbed unobtanium after the mythical substance. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > They ought to be trying to mine _Upsidaisium_ from _Rocky and Bullwinkle_. That’s they only thing that can be holding those Hallelujah Mountains up. really – they don’t give a word of explanation in the movie. I know I’ve seen similar things in SF art, but in a story or movie you expect at least lip service for things that go against common experience. They don’t explain it in the movie, but the book says the mountains contain large deposits of unobtanium, which supposedly trap intense magnetic fields due to their superconducting properties. Other intense magnetic fields in the region repel the mountains and cause them to float. The magnetic fields also account for the formation of the large stone arches in the same region. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either, but it beats most explanations of FTL travel. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/592 "2010-01-11T01:49:48Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > And how, indeed, do you know that? The movie gives no indication that it’s Management being snarky. I could easily see engineers calling it that, somewhat ironically, and having the name stick. There are real names in the world of science that are just as weird, and have such a genesis. The stuff actually _is_ named unobtanium. It’s not just a snarky joke. The in-character featurettes – such as [Pandora Discovered](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDmin_38E) – refer to unobtanium by name. The conceit of that particular featurette is that it’s Grace Augustine narrating an overview of Pandora for the folks back home. And at about 2:20 she talks about the uses of _unobtanium_. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/593 "2010-01-11T01:56:12Z")
[This page](http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Unobtanium) describes unobtanium, and repeats much of the information about it to be found in the Avatar book I linked to above. > [@](#): > > Originally, the term “unobtanium” was used to describe the material as a joke. However, over the years, the name appears to have stuck. No question that it’s intended to be the name of an actual material in the Avatar universe, not just a “snarky remark” by a character. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/594 "2010-01-11T02:04:51Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The stuff actually _is_ named unobtanium. It’s not just a snarky joke. > > The in-character featurettes – such as [Pandora Discovered](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDmin_38E) – refer to unobtanium by name. The conceit of that particular featurette is that it’s Grace Augustine narrating an overview of Pandora for the folks back home. And at about 2:20 she talks about the uses of _unobtanium_. Heh, I swear I did not look at any of the featurettes or wikis when I posted early what unobtanium was most likely. The few scenes showing how the material behaved in the display model/case were enough for me to tell me that it was one of the current holy grails of physicists: a room temperature superconductive material. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/595 "2010-01-11T02:43:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The companion book Jeez, you’d think this was Star Trek. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/596 "2010-01-11T03:09:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Lemur866** I didn’t see him as pure evil. I saw him as a young overzealous executive who wasn’t that comfortable with what he was doing, but who wouldn’t admit that explicitly. It sounded to me like he was making up excuses to avoid feeling guilty. I think that’s the way the character was written, but Ribisi is terrible at putting that across. (I really hate him as an actor. A better actor could have done something with that role.) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/597 "2010-01-11T03:12:49Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > I think that’s the way the character was written, but Ribisi is terrible at putting that across. (I really hate him as an actor. A better actor could have done something with that role.) Having never seen Ribisi prior to this role, I thought he very aptly expressed the character as it was presumably written. I wonder if your knowledge of his prior roles is affecting your view of him here? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/598 "2010-01-11T03:15:54Z")
Ok, I concede, but I still like the idea that the original use of the name was as a jokey throwback to the geek past, but that the name stuck to become the popular name for the material. That’s not a reason to scorn James Cameron either. > [@spoke-](#): > > I think that’s the way the character was written, but Ribisi is terrible at putting that across. (I really hate him as an actor. A better actor could have done something with that role.) No kidding. He played the exact same hateful corporate character in **2012**. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/599 "2010-01-11T03:38:23Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Having never seen Ribisi prior to this role, I thought he very aptly expressed the character as it was presumably written. I wonder if your knowledge of his prior roles is affecting your view of him here? He plays basically the same weaselly character in every movie. He has no range, and no subtlety. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/600 "2010-01-11T03:44:05Z")
I can’t stand Ribisi, and I don’t think it’s just because he’s a $cientologist. First, he’s a $cieno by birth and I always have sympathy for those poor unfortunate souls, and second, there are a lot of other $cientologist actors I really really like when they’re acting, like Tom Cruise and John Travolta. No, I think I dislike Ribisi because he’s just not a very good actor. IMO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/601 "2010-01-11T03:51:41Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > First, he’s a $cieno by birth and I always have sympathy for those poor unfortunate souls So then why have you been constantly referring to him as “$cienoBoy” throughout this entire thread? It seems so childish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=31)