# Avatar: Now that you've actually seen it. No spoilers in OP **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626 "2009-12-17T11:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/622 "2010-01-11T18:33:50Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > **2001** was a very different sort of movie. It was intended to be a serious, “hard” science fiction movie. So what? That wasn’t a provision in the argument I responded to. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/623 "2010-01-11T18:44:34Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > The world was pretty but there was so much that was just biologically ridiculous that I was pulled away from the plot time and time again. Actually, as a professional tropical biologist I found much of the biology quite plausible, and this was one of the major attractions of the movie for me. I think you may not be aware of just how odd many of the life forms that exist right here on Earth may be. There wasn’t much that was more outrageous than some bizarre Earth organisms I could name. Sure, there were some things that didn’t fit, but far less so than almost any other sci-fi movie I have ever seen. (For example the giant asteriod worm that almost eats the Millennium Falcon in Star Wars, or the sand worms in Dune). > [@Anaamika](#): > > The main one that sticks out in my head is the spinning lighty thing. What a stupid way to travel around. The spinning bioluminescent organ evidently is used mainly as a startle display directed at predators and as a courtship display in mating rather than the primary mode of locomotion. If you think that looks silly, try watching a Bird-of-Paradise courtship display sometime. > [@spoke-](#): > > Combining human DNA with alien DNA is one example. How does _that_ work? I agree with you on that one. Basically it’s impossible that life that evolved independently on two different worlds would have similar enough genetic codes that their DNA could be integrated. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/624 "2010-01-11T19:37:37Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > So what? That wasn’t a provision in the argument I responded to. The statment you responded to was that a “big silly blockbuster” should have charsmatic characters and not be too long. You responded that 2001 was just as long and lacked charismatic characters. 2001 wasn’t intended as a “big silly blockbuster”, but as serious hard SF. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/625 "2010-01-11T19:39:35Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > and same thing happened with Jake’s mentor Grace in Avatar. Grace was Jake’s “mentor”? She was at most his Mom: “no, you can’t use the avatar box until you eat something, young man!” ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/626 "2010-01-11T19:43:45Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The statment you responded to was that a “big silly blockbuster” should have charsmatic characters and not be too long. You responded that 2001 was just as long and lacked charismatic characters. > > 2001 wasn’t intended as a “big silly blockbuster”, but as serious hard SF. I suppose I didn’t interpret Avatar as being “silly.” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/627 "2010-01-11T19:49:16Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I suppose I didn’t interpret Avatar as being “silly.” Heh, maybe so, not my words; I’d say, silly or not, it was intended as a very different sort of movie. A _blockbuster_ - with action, romance, riding dragons! 2001 was never intended to have _that_ sort of appeal. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/628 "2010-01-11T19:52:03Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I don’t think “non sequitur” means what you think it does. [QUOTE=Wiki] The use of non sequitur in humor can be deliberate or unintentional. Literally, the expression is Latin for “it does not follow.”[2] In other literature, a non sequitur can denote an abrupt, illogical, unexpected or absurd turn of plot or dialogue not normally associated with or appropriate to that preceding it. It is a type of logical fallacy. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Whatever. It’s a deeply flawed film and 2001 may or may not be as well; don’t care because I haven’t seen it; never claimed otherwise. Happy? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/629 "2010-01-11T20:01:55Z")
> [@alexandra](#): > > :rolleyes: Whatever. It’s a deeply flawed film and 2001 may or may not be as well; don’t care because I haven’t seen it; never claimed otherwise. Happy? You weren’t using it humorously, and even had you, it would still have been used incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/630 "2010-01-11T20:13:57Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Combining human DNA with alien DNA is one example. How does _that_ work? Around 180 years of developing [Recombinant DNA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recombinant_DNA) technology including, of course, a couple of genius moves along the way! Bada-bing! ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/631 "2010-01-11T21:41:37Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Combining human DNA with alien DNA is one example. How does _that_ work? Notice how the Na’vi did not have the six limbs the other animals had? Could the origin of the Na’vi be off world, and there be some evolutionary connection with humanity? Not that it matters. That’s why they call it science _fiction_. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/632 "2010-01-11T21:49:13Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Notice how the Na’vi did not have the six limbs the other animals had? Could the origin of the Na’vi be off world, and there be some evolutionary connection with humanity? > > Not that it matters. That’s why they call it science _fiction_. But even sci fi has to be plausible to be bought, IMO. And it did bother me that they never even attempted to explain how they could “upload” the minds of the humans into the bodies. I got one end of it, we plug into a computer, right, and the computer uploads our minds - I can accept that. I can suspend my disbelief so high. What I couldn’t accept was that then we could download the minds into the aliens bodies - and they didn’t have to be plugged in. Also, the aliens called them “dreamwalkers”. Yet they were surprised to find out our hero was human at the end. Why did they call them dreamwalkers? What did they know about them? What was the initial contact? How did we get the idea to spend what was probably TONS of money to go in there as these weird alien-human hybrids rather than just go in as humans, with masks on? And they spoke English! So why not cut to the chase and just try to communicate with them the old-fashioned way??? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/633 "2010-01-11T21:56:53Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > But even sci fi has to be plausible to be bought, IMO. Watching Star Wars must be very difficult then. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Yet they were surprised to find out our hero was human at the end. Not as I recall, they weren’t. They were “surprised” that he was sent in with a specific pro-military agenda. > [@Anaamika](#): > > And they spoke English! So why not cut to the chase and just try to communicate with them the old-fashioned way??? They explained this with the classrooms the humans had set up. But even barring that: poetic license. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/634 "2010-01-11T22:07:55Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > But even sci fi has to be plausible to be bought, IMO. And it did bother me that they never even attempted to explain how they could “upload” the minds of the humans into the bodies. I got one end of it, we plug into a computer, right, and the computer uploads our minds - I can accept that. I can suspend my disbelief so high. What exactly do you want to explain this to you? Do you need technical schematics for anything in sci-fi? Do you scoff because you don’t understand how a hyperdrive or lightsaber works? > [@](#): > > What I couldn’t accept was that then we could download the minds into the aliens bodies - and they didn’t have to be plugged in. The avatars were remote controlled. Do you download your mind into a Predator Drone? At the end they copied Jake Sulley’s consciousness and inserted it into his Avatar directly. > [@](#): > > Also, the aliens called them “dreamwalkers”. Yet they were surprised to find out our hero was human at the end. Why did they call them dreamwalkers? What did they know about them? You weren’t paying attention. They know the human Avatars are artificial. They weren’t surprised at seeing him as a human at the end. It was, I think you would grant, weird to see the tiny pink thing that you’ve known for months as a member of their species. > [@](#): > > What was the initial contact? How did we get the idea to spend what was probably TONS of money to go in there as these weird alien-human hybrids rather than just go in as humans, with masks on? I would assume that futuristic sociologists probably thought it was worth the effort to establish relations. > [@](#): > > And they spoke English! So why not cut to the chase and just try to communicate with them the old-fashioned way??? A few of the aliens spoke English because they had established schools on the planet decades ago. Only recently they had closed down. It’s not a plot hole if the answer is clearly in the movie and you simply weren’t paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/635 "2010-01-11T22:11:37Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Notice how the Na’vi did not have the six limbs the other animals had? Could the origin of the Na’vi be off world, and there be some evolutionary connection with humanity? Based on that fact (and other differences from Pandoran animals, like not breathing through thoracic spiracles, having two rather than four eyes, and so forth) I considered that to be a possibility. However, the Avatar book implies that they are in fact native to Pandora. One thing I missed in viewing the movie is that, according to the book, the true Na’vi have only four digits on their hands and feet, while the Avatars have five on each due to the mixing with human DNA. > [@](#): > > Not that it matters. That’s why they call it science _fiction_. Actually, as has been said elsewhere, it is more of a science fantasy. Like Star Wars it’s can be considered a fairy tale or myth with futuristic trappings. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/636 "2010-01-11T22:25:41Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Grace was Jake’s “mentor”? She was at most his Mom: “no, you can’t use the avatar box until you eat something, young man!” She had three months of exorting him to eat his vegetables and do his video log. Also, teaching him the Na’vi language and customs. And telling him “Run, definitely run!” when dealing with thanators. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan taught Luke for, what? one hyperspace jump. If Obi-Wan is a mentor, then so’s Grace. But, good point that Avatar managed to get a message in about good nutrition. Guess it’s up on Star Wars for the another thing in addition to _slightly_ better dialog. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/637 "2010-01-11T22:27:21Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Watching Star Wars must be very difficult then. I hated Star Wars for the longest time because they used control surfaces in a vacumn. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/638 "2010-01-12T01:05:55Z")
The wife and I finally saw it last night. The theater was packed 3 weeks after release so it looks like people like it. I enjoyed the movie but It was a pretty mediocre movie except for the special effects. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/639 "2010-01-12T05:03:29Z")
Saw it on friday. Twas exactly what I thought it would be; really awesome visuals/imagination…and an OK story. Since he wrote the thing in '99 I’ll forgive a lot of the “tired old story” BS. I just enjoyed the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/640 "2010-01-12T06:32:50Z")
We saw it in IMAX 3-D tonight - oh. my. god. I have never seen anything like that before. My beef (like I said in the mini-rants thread) is that my eyes don’t seem to like 3-D - my head is still aching. But, oh, what a spectacular movie! I don’t want to read 13 pages - did anyone call it “Dances With Aliens” yet? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/641 "2010-01-12T07:39:52Z")
Several times. I absolutely love the movie, but there’s one thing that still bugs me; “You lied and deceived us, causing hundreds of deaths and the destruction of our- Hey! Neat bird! We like you! You can lead us now!” (I know that they make a big deal of Toruk Macto, but c’mon) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=33)