# Avatar: Now that you've actually seen it. No spoilers in OP **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626 "2009-12-17T11:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/742 "2010-01-17T20:13:36Z")
Why should some corporate douchebag care more about scientific terminology than the Colonel? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/743 "2010-01-17T20:24:51Z")
Dunno. I’ve already talked about it too much. Best just leave it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/744 "2010-01-17T21:04:10Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Norm is there in a breathing mask at the end with some of the Navi and presumably some of the other scientists (in their avatar bodies), shepherding the other humans to their ships to leave. Yeah, what’s supposed to happen to these guys? There’s no indication any of the native flora or fauna is edible for humans (if the atmosphere is toxic, surely every animal who breathes is it likely toxic, too). Are they going to live the rest of their lives on whatever food stores were left behind? I guess if the base population is reduced from 1,000 or so to a dozen, the food would last quite a while, but I don’t recall any sign of greenhouses or farms producing human-edible food. Actually, I don’t remember seeing any of the humans eating at all, but I guess they must have at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/745 "2010-01-17T21:08:49Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, what’s supposed to happen to these guys? There’s no indication any of the native flora or fauna is edible for humans (if the atmosphere is toxic, surely every animal who breathes is it likely toxic, too). Are they going to live the rest of their lives on whatever food stores were left behind? I guess if the base population is reduced from 1,000 or so to a dozen, the food would last quite a while, but I don’t recall any sign of greenhouses or farms producing human-edible food. Actually, I don’t remember seeing any of the humans eating at all, but I guess they must have at some point. Jake eats in a couple of non-avatar scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/746 "2010-01-17T21:11:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, I don’t remember seeing any of the humans eating at all, but I guess they must have at some point. There’s one scene where Sigourney Weaver’s character is insisting that Sully (in his human body) has to eat something before he goes Avatar again, and that he’s been neglecting his human body too much. The stuff on his plate looked pretty bland, probably reconstituted something-or-other. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/747 "2010-01-17T21:13:41Z")
Probably cornbread. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/748 "2010-01-17T21:27:45Z")
It seems like the human scientists who still have Avatars could merge with them, a la Jake. Dunno what happens to Norm (whose Avatar appears to have been killed) and Max (who never had one), though. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/749 "2010-01-17T21:34:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, what’s supposed to happen to these guys? There’s no indication any of the native flora or fauna is edible for humans (if the atmosphere is toxic, surely every animal who breathes is it likely toxic, too). Are they going to live the rest of their lives on whatever food stores were left behind? I guess if the base population is reduced from 1,000 or so to a dozen, the food would last quite a while, but I don’t recall any sign of greenhouses or farms producing human-edible food. The base has facilities for protein and carbohydrate synthesis, using Pandoran flora as raw material, sufficient to feed the entire original contingent (per the book). There is also the implication in the book that at least some of the wildlife may be edible (perhaps again with processing). ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/750 "2010-01-17T21:36:21Z")
> [@MitzeKatze](#): > > That is part of what made it so sad for me. Even if the love story aspect had a sort of happy conclusion, there was still so much death and destruction that would be impossible to recover from, and nothing was ever shown being done or spoken about to keep it from happening again. If it were real life, the company wanting the unobtainium would just come back with more forces, more fire power, more…everything…and overpower what was left of Pandora in the end I’m glad someone thought that too. I got that vibe from the ending, just like the Ewoks partied with chunks of the Death Star raining down on them, the Navi celebrated the “birth” of one new member of their race while the humans went home and came back with nukes. Shouldn’t Cameron of all people have seen the only way to be sure coming 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/751 "2010-01-17T21:36:45Z")
The extent of Eywa’s abilities is unclear. Heck, it wouldn’t be out of line with what we’ve already been shown for a human and a mortally-wounded N’avi to get mutually fiber-opticked and the human’s consciousness transferred over. For that matter, could Ewya fiber-optic a living Na’vi and Xerox up a brain-blank copy for the human’s mind to get transferred into? It’s probably best that the humans stay human, though - they’ll more easily be able to operate the base’s abandoned machines and such, since it’s all been scaled to human size. Yes, that’s right - I’m lending serious analysis to a silly movie. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/752 "2010-01-17T21:42:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The base has facilities for protein and carbohydrate synthesis, using Pandoran flora as raw material, sufficient to feed the entire original contingent (per the book). Yeah, but are the machines easy to use and maintain by the handful of idealists left behind? It’d be a shame if they starved because the various electronics and hydroponics technicians left the planet and a Ph. D. in xenoanthopology proved surprisingly useless. > [@](#): > > There is also the implication in the book that at least some of the wildlife may be edible (perhaps again with processing). Sure, just get used to apologizing all the time. Heck, has there ever been a hunter-gatherer society on Earth that was as large as the main Navi tribe, which also included specialist-priests and such? I though such food-gathering methods would tend to limit a tribe’s size to thirty or so, not a thousand plus. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/753 "2010-01-17T21:53:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The extent of Eywa’s abilities is unclear. Heck, it wouldn’t be out of line with what we’ve already been shown for a human and a mortally-wounded N’avi to get mutually fiber-opticked and the human’s consciousness transferred over. 😕 What would be the point of transferring a human’s consciousness into a mortally wounded N’avi? “Yay–it worked! I’m in a N’avi body! Oh crap–I’m dying!” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/754 "2010-01-17T22:00:13Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > 😕 What would be the point of transferring a human’s consciousness into a mortally wounded N’avi? “Yay–it worked! I’m in a N’avi body! Oh crap–I’m dying!” Well, I had in mind (but obviously forgot to write) that repairs would be included, at no charge. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/755 "2010-01-17T22:13:14Z")
Okay, but if the body could be repaired, wouldn’t you just save the original N’avi who occupies it? It would be kind of dickish to only save the body if you can have it for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/756 "2010-01-17T22:19:10Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I did wonder what’s the deal with the atmosphere. The biosphere is clearly an oxidative one which would almost certainly have to mean oxygen. So is it too low a partial pressure of oxygen? “Contaminants” that do bad things to Earth-based life (I’m thinking something like NOx or ozone?) Something along the lines of Niven’s “The Flight of the Horse” where air _without_ the industrial contaminants is poisonous? Answered upthread, but I wanted to add that the _plot_ deal with having the atmosphere be unbreathable to humans was to establish that even with a fertile ecosystem humans would still be dependent on technology to survive there. Otherwise the Corporation™ could have just called for volunteer colonists who could have established a pioneer culture like the old American frontier, eventually displacing the natives. Regarding hunter/gatherer cultures, the analogy isn’t exact because life on Pandora is different, thanks to Eywa. Given a hyperintelligently-coordinated ecosystem, life there looks to be superfertile. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/757 "2010-01-17T22:25:51Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The first time it was used in the film, I thought it was tongue in cheek. **But it wasn’t used just once** and it appeared in earnest - I don’t accept your explanation, sorry. Tell me where in the movie it was used more than once. Please be specific so I can listen carefully the next time I see the movie. I only remember it being used once, near the beginning, by Ribisi in his office when he’s talking to Grace. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/758 "2010-01-17T22:32:09Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Okay, but if the body could be repaired, wouldn’t you just save the original N’avi who occupies it? It would be kind of dickish to only save the body if you can have it for yourself. Well, for all we know, Eywa’s a stone-cold bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/759 "2010-01-17T22:41:29Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > I got that vibe from the ending, just like the Ewoks partied with chunks of the Death Star raining down on them, the Navi celebrated the “birth” of one new member of their race while the humans went home and came back with nukes. > > Shouldn’t Cameron of all people have seen the only way to be sure coming 😉 Nukes aren’t going to do you any good against a dispersed population without any infrastructure or technology, especially if they make the unobtanium radioactive. (At least, they don’t have much advantage over conventional bombs.) As has been pointed out elsewhere, the company is under some constraints that could prevent it from coming back in force and wiping out the Na’vi. It’s a private company, operating under a UN charter that prohibits genocide; it also has just lost enormous amounts of its capital investment and may have trouble raising more funding. It will also be under enormous scrutiny and possibly political pressure because of its screw-up. The humans who remained on Pandora may have access to equipment with instantaneous communication with Earth, and tell the Na’vi side of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/760 "2010-01-17T22:49:29Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Nukes aren’t going to do you any good against a dispersed population without any infrastructure or technology, especially if they make the unobtanium radioactive. (At least, they don’t have much advantage over conventional bombs.) > > As has been pointed out elsewhere, the company is under some constraints that could prevent it from coming back in force and wiping out the Na’vi. It’s a private company, operating under a UN charter that prohibits genocide; it also has just lost enormous amounts of it’s capital investment and may have trouble raising more funding. It will also be under enormous scrutiny and possibly political pressure because of its screw-up. The humans who remained on Pandora may have access to equipment with instantaneous communication with Earth, and tell the Na’vi side of the story. Even if they don’t have instant communication, their radio signals will beat the ships to Earth by two years. And to agree with what you’re saying about the orbital bombing, we could kill every living person in Saudi Arabia tomorrow with our technology. The reason we don’t just take their oil is because the world is more complicated than, “we’ll come back and nuke them from orbit!” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/761 "2010-01-17T22:54:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, but are the machines easy to use and maintain by the handful of idealists left behind? It’d be a shame if they starved because the various electronics and hydroponics technicians left the planet and a Ph. D. in xenoanthopology proved surprisingly useless. Yes, you’re quite right, they all starve to death. I’m sure that will be how the sequel will turn out. 😉 This is a movie, of course. If it suits the plot of the sequel for the remaining humans not to starve to death, then there are plausible ways (within the Atavar universe) for them to be able to generate enough food. Sure, you can hypothesize reasons why it might not work, but that won’t happen unless the plot requires it. > [@](#): > > Sure, just get used to apologizing all the time. Heck, has there ever been a hunter-gatherer society on Earth that was as large as the main Navi tribe, which also included specialist-priests and such? I though such food-gathering methods would tend to limit a tribe’s size to thirty or so, not a thousand plus. Who’s apologizing? I’m mostly just reporting what the book says. Yes, the size of the Na’vi tribe would be implausible on Earth (though I don’t think it’s near one thousand). However, Pandora has a very productive environment due to its very high carbon dioxide atmosphere and other factors. Its forest produces more potential food per unit area than forests on Earth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=39)