# Avatar: Now that you've actually seen it. No spoilers in OP **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626 "2009-12-17T11:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Robbin\_Hood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Robbin\_Hood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robbin_Hood)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/81 "2009-12-20T03:07:57Z")
I saw the movie and liked it. It was gorgeous to look at; Cameron and company certainly did pay attention to detail. I thought the Na’vi were alien enough…10 feet tall, blue skin with markings, long, lithe bodies that would put even the scrawniest super model to shame, and their own fiber optic ports to connect with other lifeforms around them. Hey! That’s alien and totally cool. That said, I will agree that sometimes the message was heavy-handed, but that doesn’t mean the message wasn’t relevant or need not have been said. People have been crushing other people’s civilizations and calling them “savage” when their way of life doesn’t mimic western civilization forever, and especially if those “savages” have a natural resource that the other wants. What gives us the right to simply TAKE that which is not ours? I would have loved to have seen the part of the country I live in 100 years ago; hell, even 20 years ago. TPTB have managed to knock down every tree and fill in every greenspace in favor of more multiuse buildings or McMansions. They’ve yun off every bit of wild life native to area because no other creature has the right to live or breath except humans. It’s more than sickening, it’s a freaking abomination. I’m glad the Na’vi kicked ass and sent the greedy, rapacious humans packing. Now if we could just perfect the 3D experience to the point were the goofy glasses are not necessary, I’d be way happy. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/82 "2009-12-20T03:11:59Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > We saw it yesterday and thought the 3D effects were quite amazing, the visuals were beautiful - but yes, the story was good but not great; sort of predictable from frame one. > > However, having worked at a movie studio, the people I don’t envy is the home video marketing team. How the hell are they going to sell any DVD’s of a film that is 95% based on the great 3D effects?! > > DVD’s are usually a big factor in the bottom line of earning potential of a film, and in this case - unless they quickly get those Blu-ray 3D flat screens on the market soon, I can’t see people plunking down money to see the film in 2D at home. > > Still, I don’t doubt this film will rake in a few coins over the next several months, so I doubt Fox will be weeping about losing their shirts on this project -\*\* but they had better not be counting on the DVD market to make up any shortfall\*\*. Sure they can. Hell, within seven years Avatar will have its “network television debut” and it will be stretched out to 4.5 hours with commercials - and they won’t even show it widescreen – AND plenty of people will watch. I am only able to see it in 2D in my area, and I enjoyed it without feeling like I was missing out on anything. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/83 "2009-12-20T04:21:44Z")
I loved this movie. I am not crazy about 3D at all, and I actually actively wish for it to fall off completely, regardless of how unlikely this may be. But, this movie was awesome enough for me to forgive the 3D format (which I indulged for my best friend) and just get lost in the story. I thought the male lead was a bit weak, but everything else about the movie had me staring like a wondrous child. The Na’vi were very Masai-warrior influenced, huh? ETA: my post didn’t make much sense before I edited. Probably still makes no sense ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/84 "2009-12-20T05:16:41Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I did. You wished one side or the other would have wiped out all of the other side. Well, more specifically, I wanted to humans to face massive resistance and discover that “Eywa” isn’t some mythical Gaia-analogue, but the name the N’avi give to the planetary intelligence, to which the N’avi are mere servants who maintain the fiber-optic network. I figure Eywa might not even notice or care if N’avi start getting killed, but when the bulldozer knocks down one of the trees, all hell breaks loose. I figure this is a far more sophisticated plot than the the clichéd noble-savage stuff we were spoonfed. Eywa could even start producing animal and plant species designed specifically to repel the humans, loaded with sophisticated bio-weapons, essentially a biology-based version of the technology-based Borg. In fact, drawing from Lightnin’s comments about how the N’avi don’t physically resemble the other animals, why not have as a big reveal that the N’avi aren’t native to Pandora either. They were originally the genetically-modified “avatars” of another species who wanted the mineral but “went native” over time. Since this is clearly what happens to the main character, it’s not a stretch at all. I’d’ve loved a scene where the insects (also just another biological arm of Eywa) swarm the helicopters, covering the windows. The pilots get annoyed, try using windshield wipers and such, but nothing works until the insects abruptly disperse on their own. What fills the windows now is a sky full of incoming angry red dragons. Pilot: Oh, _shiiiiiii…_ Anyway, there’s nothing specifically “murderously savage” about this - Eywa is simply defending itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/85 "2009-12-20T05:18:07Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > So was there a script behind that thing, or did Cameron (or someone) just piece the dialogue together from Dances With Wolves, The Lion King, some B-movies and every black-and-white war flick ever made? Yeesh. My girlfriend saw a lot of _The Last Samurai_ in there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/86 "2009-12-20T05:35:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Anyway, there’s nothing specifically “murderously savage” about this - Eywa is simply defending itself. I was channel surfing the other day and came upon this underwater scene. In the very few seconds I watched, a school of about 30 small fish swam rapidly along, then up and over a rock. Coming from the other direction was a larger fish that was something like a Largemouth Bass. In a split second, it inflated it’s mouth and sucked in about 20 of the small fish. Then it turned and swam away. The 10 remaining of the school kind of stopped dead and turned to stare at the vacant space where the rest of their kin had just been. For the small fish; a very rapid and horrific holocaust. For the large fish; a large, fast, and convenient meal. All depends on your perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/87 "2009-12-20T05:38:26Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > All depends on your perspective. Indeed. For dramatic purposes, though, I’d’ve like Eywa to be less like Gaia and more like Cthulhu. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/88 "2009-12-20T05:41:45Z")
A fair pinch of Braveheart as well, helped more than a little bit by the fact that Sam Worthington sounds _a lot_ like Mel Gibson. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/89 "2009-12-20T07:28:21Z")
Well. That’s one movie I’m glad I saw on the big screen. (Although the 45 minutes sitting waiting for it to start were hellish–trapped with the “pre-show” ads made me feel really STABBY.) I’ve never seen anything with such lineups before, but then I don’t see a lot of movies in the theatre. The 6:30 show sold out so I bought tickets ($29 for two people!) to the 7:00 screening, and the ticketseller said to be there early (hence the sitting waiting through the pre-movie torture session. There was a huge line up waiting to enter the theatre, and another one just as big to go in after we exited. The 3D was great–it wasn’t as much a novelty as the few other 3D stuff I’ve seen, and I got dizzy too going over precipices and in mid-air. Loved that, though. It didn’t seem too long. Yep, the plot was a huge cliche, but I didn’t care. I loved the bioluminesence (I cannot spell tonight, I’m so sorry) and the wondrous plants. If a friend wants to see it, I’ll go again. What the heck… Now, important question. I kept the glasses–anything I can look at on the web with them? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/90 "2009-12-20T10:54:41Z")
Good flick. Story was basic, but not stupid. My wife and I saw the 3D version, but I really don’t think it matters; I bought it almost all the way through. If you like sci-fi, go see it. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/91 "2009-12-20T16:34:26Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > PS: The _Dances With Wolves_ comparison–while not inaccurate–has become something of an internet meme. I’ve read lots and lots of messageboard chatter about _Avatar_ over the last few weeks and everyone seems to think they are the first to make the _Dances With Wolves_ observation, even in threads where it’s already been mentioned dozens of times (I guess most people don’t read the threads they are posting in). Hell, South Park aired their “Dances With Smurfs” episode over a month ago. I just wish people who are complaining that the plot is unoriginal would come up with some criticism that is… more original. As the first to mention DwW in this thread…as God is my witness, I thought I _was_ being original. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/92 "2009-12-20T17:04:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, more specifically, I wanted to humans to face massive resistance and discover that “Eywa” isn’t some mythical Gaia-analogue, but the name the N’avi give to the planetary intelligence, to which the N’avi are mere servants who maintain the fiber-optic network. I figure Eywa might not even notice or care if N’avi start getting killed, but when the bulldozer knocks down one of the trees, all hell breaks loose. I figure this is a far more sophisticated plot than the the clichéd noble-savage stuff we were spoonfed. Eywa could even start producing animal and plant species designed specifically to repel the humans, loaded with sophisticated bio-weapons, essentially a biology-based version of the technology-based Borg. Yeah, I’m down, maybe they’ll show is more of Eywa in episode II. I don’t think Eywa is so much indifferent to the Na’vi, as Gaia is indifferent to the Na’vi. Apparently the Na’vi serve a purpose. In this case leading the charge against the invaders. > [@](#): > > In fact, drawing from Lightnin’s comments about how the N’avi don’t physically resemble the other animals, why not have as a big reveal that the N’avi aren’t native to Pandora either. They were originally the genetically-modified “avatars” of another species who wanted the mineral but “went native” over time. Since this is clearly what happens to the main character, it’s not a stretch at all. Could be interesting, and yes, the Na’vi were definitely in ‘one of these things is not like the others’ territory. > [@](#): > > I’d’ve loved a scene where the insects (also just another biological arm of Eywa) swarm the helicopters, covering the windows. The pilots get annoyed, try using windshield wipers and such, but nothing works until the insects abruptly disperse on their own. What fills the windows now is a sky full of incoming angry red dragons. > > Pilot: Oh, _shiiiiiii…_ Yeah, that’d be cool. > [@](#): > > Anyway, there’s nothing specifically “murderously savage” about this - Eywa is simply defending itself. I agree, but there is something diplomatic about sending people back to Earth. Some of those people in the CIC were horrified by what happened and they can bitch about it on the blogs. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/93 "2009-12-20T17:20:21Z")
I would have like to know more about what they wanted the Unobtainium for. Were they using it to make Wishalloy? Coudn’t they get Wonderflonium? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/94 "2009-12-20T17:25:21Z")
They shoulda just called it MacGuffinite. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/95 "2009-12-20T17:41:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > They shoulda just called it MacGuffinite. Calling it Unobtainium is basically the same as calling it MacGuffinite. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/96 "2009-12-20T17:50:26Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > PS: The _Dances With Wolves_ comparison–while not inaccurate–has become something of an internet meme. I’ve read lots and lots of messageboard chatter about _Avatar_ over the last few weeks and everyone seems to think they are the first to make the _Dances With Wolves_ observation, even in threads where it’s already been mentioned dozens of times (I guess most people don’t read the threads they are posting in). Hell, South Park aired their “Dances With Smurfs” episode over a month ago. I just wish people who are complaining that the plot is unoriginal would come up with some criticism that is… more original. > > PPS: I like _Dances With Wolves_ 🙂 To be fair, I knew little to nothing about it going in and have avoided any online discussion of it (this thread aside). How about Apocalypto meets Mac and Me? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/97 "2009-12-20T17:53:07Z")
Incidentally [unobtanium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtanium)is a real name used by engineers for very costly,rare materials. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/98 "2009-12-20T18:17:48Z")
I loved it. I can see it has lots of flaws and faults, but I still loved it. I paid my money to experience some cinematic magic of a kind I’ve never experienced before, and that’s what I got. And plenty. Everyone with any interest in movie-making, or within detonation range of a press release, knows something of the amazing technology that went into the creation of this film. But for me the movie managed to transcend all that. It coaxed forth my usually reticent suspension of disbelief so that I could be transported into a visually stunning and beautiful world - one full of wonder, enchantment, magic, grace, awe and lots of other good movie stuff. I can understand some of the cynical backlash. Any movie that cost so much, took so long, and was the cause and focus of so much hype, was always going to be popular among the ‘Way too cool to say I liked it’ brigade. And yes, the movie is weak in many departments. But I focused on what it did that was new, and what it did well, and for those reasons I applaud the scale of both the ambition and the achievement. It’s not just the Pandora sequences: even the scene near the start of Jarhead and the rest being awoken from their weightless cryo-snooze was visually stunning cinematic magic. I did feel that I was seeing a landmark film. I got that warm and fuzzy ‘I was there’ feeling, seeing it as I did on the first day of general release (at least here in the UK). I say this not because I expect all movie-makers will now start wanting to emulate this. They won’t, many of them can’t and most shouldn’t. I say it because Cameron and his army of movie magicians have shown that some new things are possible, and that’s what this or any other art form needs from time to time: someone to come along and say “Hey, look, this is possible as well”. I said there are many flaws. Let’s tick off a few, just for the record. Plot? Dull, flat, predictable, seen it all before. Defence: it never pretended to be anything else, or anything but an excuse to take us into wonderland. Music? Sounded like a last minute stitch-together from every similar movie ever made, and far less emotive or rapturous than the visuals deserved. Pandora needed something on a par with Bach. Such as… Bach. Script? A passable grinding of gears to get from A to B on the plot synopsis, but no standout quotes or memorable lines in a movie that deserved a smattering of them. Acting? Fantastic job by Zoe Saldana (as far as we can tell), walking cardboard from Sam Worthington (whose casting in big-league movies baffles me as it does many others). Otherwise pretty much an acting-by-numbers recitation exercise from a bunch of actors drowned by the technological process of which they were such a relatively trivial part. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/99 "2009-12-20T18:31:54Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Incidentally [unobtanium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtanium)is a real name used by engineers for very costly,rare materials. I didn’t know that but hearing the word “unobtainium,” I laughed out loud. I don’t think anyone else caught it. But come one, unobtainium? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/100 "2009-12-20T20:08:58Z")
I thought it was awesome! I saw it in IMAX 3D and it looked gorgeous. The CGI was outstanding and looked extremely realistic. It was really hard to believe that most (all?) of those scenes on Pandora were done in a computer. I liked that the Na’Vi looked like they had actual \*weight \*to them when falling & running, that’s one thing that has always bothered me about CGI characters. It’s funny but the effects scene that actually stood out as the most amazing to me was the brief shot of Jake’s atrophied legs while he was sitting in the wheelchair. Maybe because it didn’t call attention to itself and was something most movies with a paralyzed character ignore. The plot was satisfactory, nothing special or unique, but I didn’t think it detracted much. I did think that this was the best example of using 3D to enhance a film that I’ve ever seen, it really made the world of Pandora incredibly rich and vibrant. (Though it did cause someone about 6 seats away from me to vomit about halfway through, which was pretty nasty.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=6)