# Avatar: Now that you've actually seen it. No spoilers in OP **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626 "2009-12-17T11:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/101 "2009-12-20T21:47:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Calling it Unobtainium is basically the same as calling it MacGuffinite > [@tr0psn4j](#): > > I didn’t know that but hearing the word “unobtainium,” I laughed out loud. I don’t think anyone else caught it. But come one, unobtainium? Really? What **mswas** said. Calling it Unobtainium is basically a way to say “hey, it’s a MacGuffin and we know it is, so we don’t have to explain it any further.” ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/102 "2009-12-20T21:48:05Z")
I thought the movie was very pretty, and was pleasantly surprised by the reveal about the neural links/hive-mind. I had been worried that I would not respect the Na’vi’s motivation or continue to suspend my disbelief for the inevitable “rock beats laser” ending. Contrary to what **tr0psn4j** said, the humans weren’t just trying to bulldoze the server, they were trying to bulldoze what was effectively a combined graveyard and old-folks home, sort of like the Craftworlds in Warhammer 40,000. And Eywa going _Deathworld_ on the invaders after they committed their entire defensive force to an attack where the enemy could legitimately have a home-ground advantage was far better than what I had imagined. > [@tr0psn4j](#): > > I didn’t know that but hearing the word “unobtainium,” I laughed out loud. I don’t think anyone else caught it. But come one, unobtainium? Really? Why not? We’ve got the taser, named after a fictional electric rifle. We’ve got the thagomizer, from a _Far Side_ comic strip. We’ve got _99942 Apophis_, named after a TV supervillian. It’s perfectly reasonable that whatever survey crew discovered the material would actually call it something useful for remembering which material each name referred to, instead of just coming up with “pandorium 1”-through-“pandorium 50”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/103 "2009-12-20T22:00:25Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > What **mswas** said. Ahem. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/104 "2009-12-20T22:12:33Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > I didn’t know that but hearing the word “unobtainium,” I laughed out loud. I don’t think anyone else caught it. But come one, unobtainium? Really? That’s one of the most awesome things about this film. It shows the precise level to which it takes itself seriously. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/105 "2009-12-20T22:32:49Z")
Just got back from seeing it about an hour ago. I’ll give it all the kudos that others have (great visuals, nice action shots, lots of eye candy, submersive environment, attentio to details, etc.) But it did have a rather cliched ‘seen-it-before’ plot. And that can work and there’s nothing wrong with that. However, not at a 2-1/2 hour running time. If you’re going to keep an audience captive for that long you really do need a compelling story. A 2.5 hour visual assult begins to wear thin. I was actually very bored at times. By the time the big tree went ‘timber!’ I was ready for the final battle. But they inserted another 30 minutes in there where I really couldn’t care less what happened. So, a nice piece of technolgical demonstration but not a single moment that moved any particular emotion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/106 "2009-12-20T23:05:11Z")
Something my girlfriend mentioned after we saw the film made me chuckle - after going on this big heavy-duty ritual to find his glider-critter and bond with it in the spiritual “this is this only chance you’ll ever get” way and then go on the big swooping visual, Sully sure is quick to (literally) jump to a hotter ride when the opportunity comes along. So basically, fuck all this “spiritual bond” crap - it’s _red!_ And it _looks cool!__Gimme!_ ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/107 "2009-12-20T23:25:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Something my girlfriend mentioned after we saw the film made me chuckle - after going on this big heavy-duty ritual to find his glider-critter and bond with it in the spiritual “this is this only chance you’ll ever get” way and then go on the big swooping visual, Sully sure is quick to (literally) jump to a hotter ride when the opportunity comes along. So basically, fuck all this “spiritual bond” crap - it’s _red!_ And it _looks cool!__Gimme!_ They bond with lots of other creatures. It’s only the Ekrin that bonds for life. Not the other way around. Why do you view it as significant that he bonds with something else that flies but not when he bonds with things that walk? Sounds like your girlfriend is fond of similitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/108 "2009-12-20T23:28:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ahem. I’m sorry, but MacGuffinite sounds dorky. While unobtainium doesn’t sound intelligent, it’s a pre-existing word serving both as an indication of a MacGuffin and an indication of a suitable material with amazing engineering properties. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/109 "2009-12-20T23:29:48Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Why not? We’ve got the taser, named after a fictional electric rifle. We’ve got the thagomizer, from a _Far Side_ comic strip. We’ve got _99942 Apophis_, named after a TV supervillian. It’s perfectly reasonable that whatever survey crew discovered the material would actually call it something useful for remembering which material each name referred to, instead of just coming up with “pandorium 1”-through-“pandorium 50”. This is it exactly. Scientists are just big old science fiction nerds who will latch onto something they like and apply it to a real world discovery, either as an homage or because it makes them giggle. Heck, for a little while a new planet in our solar system was named _Xena_, and when they changed it to something boring there was a collective sigh of disappointment amongst the geeks! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/110 "2009-12-20T23:38:27Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > They bond with lots of other creatures. It’s only the Ekrin that bonds for life. Not the other way around. Why do you view it as significant that he bonds with something else that flies but not when he bonds with things that walk? Because the _movie_ made it out to be significant. I’m not as generous as you when tolerating plot weaknesses. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/111 "2009-12-20T23:39:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’m sorry, but MacGuffinite sounds dorky. Well, it was meant to sound sarcastic, but dorky’s good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/112 "2009-12-20T23:43:06Z")
I don’t even know what unobtainium refers to outside of **Avatar**. I’d guess most people won’t. One of the hundreds of details I caught and loved was someone looking at data on a computer screen, then using his hand and “swiping” the info off the bigger screen onto a clear tablet he was holding to take the info across the room to show other people. That was so cool! Is that technology that’s in its formative stages or is it completely made up? Because it looked completely natural and made sense as a future technology. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/113 "2009-12-20T23:54:36Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > One of the hundreds of details I caught and loved was someone looking at data on a computer screen, then using his hand and “swiping” the info off the bigger screen onto a clear tablet he was holding to take the info across the room to show other people. That was so cool! Is that technology that’s in its formative stages or is it completely made up? It shouldn’t be hard to do. Every window-based GUI I’ve used lets you do that on a single screen anyway, so it would just be a matter of having the tablet communicating with the main computer, telling it where they are with regards to each other, and just treating the tablet screen as another window. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/114 "2009-12-21T00:18:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Because the _movie_ made it out to be significant. I’m not as generous as you when tolerating plot weaknesses. You didn’t point out a plot weakness though. You’re talking about a significance for one species and saying it should’ve applied to separate and distinct species that is superficially similar. It’s like saying, ‘Falcons can only relate to one person for their life, so I was upset that he later tamed an Eagle.’ You’ve had some legitimate complaints. This isn’t one of them. You need to establish what the rules for Tarouk should be the same as for an Ekrin. They are different species. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/115 "2009-12-21T00:25:24Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > This isn’t one of them. We’ll have to just disagree then. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/116 "2009-12-21T00:45:24Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I don’t even know what unobtainium refers to outside of **Avatar**. I’d guess most people won’t. > > One of the hundreds of details I caught and loved was someone looking at data on a computer screen, then using his hand and “swiping” the info off the bigger screen onto a clear tablet he was holding to take the info across the room to show other people. That was so cool! Is that technology that’s in its formative stages or is it completely made up? Because it looked completely natural and made sense as a future technology. Sure, there is an app for that.. 🙂 ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/G9n5DtiVjKQ/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/G9n5DtiVjKQ?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque Regarding the unobtainium, It is true that there is no need for much explanation than just being a MacGuffin; however it seems to me that they did apply a little bit of thought into it, the clue to me is on how it behaved on what I think was a small magnetic field: that small circular display for the material was part of the now classic experiment to demonstrate superconductivity, the one when one applies very cold temperature to a material so it becomes a superconductor causing the material to float with no friction (perfect for magnetic trains). It is also perfect for transmitting power at no loss of it over long distances, and to do other nifty technological tricks. The problem is that we still need to use something like liquid Nitrogen to cool the material, but what if we found a natural room temperature equivalent? As I have seen on documentaries of the subject, a room temperature superconductive material is currently the holy grail of physicists, and people would kill to get the formula for it. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/117 "2009-12-21T00:46:52Z")
Saw the 3D version today. I give it a 10 for the technical/visual aspect, and a -3 for the trite story, overblown new agey-ness (?), and soundtrack stolen from The Lion King. Kudos to Cameron for a very successful foray into the uncanny valley. If there is an Oscar for “Totally Skimpy but Completely Unrevealing Digital Costume Design”, this movie has a lock on it. (and is it just me, or is the IMDB page for Avatar in some kind of reverse color-scheme?) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/118 "2009-12-21T00:58:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > We’ll have to just disagree then. _shrugs_ You’re wrong. It’s ok if you’re wrong. Here are your two errors. 1. They are different species no reason to believe the same rules apply. 2. The Na’vi are not limited in their bonding, it’s the Ekrins who are limited. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/119 "2009-12-21T01:00:41Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > You’re wrong. And here I am, disagreeing. That’ll have to be my last word to you on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626/120 "2009-12-21T01:02:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Something my girlfriend mentioned after we saw the film made me chuckle - after going on this big heavy-duty ritual to find his glider-critter and bond with it in the spiritual “this is this only chance you’ll ever get” way and then go on the big swooping visual, Sully sure is quick to (literally) jump to a hotter ride when the opportunity comes along. So basically, fuck all this “spiritual bond” crap - it’s _red!_ And it _looks cool!__Gimme!_ Did you guys miss the part explaining the importance and lore behind the very few Na’ vi who were able to ride the last shadow bird? I think they set it up quite well in a way that doesn’t undercut the scene of him wrangling and connecting with his first bird. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-now-that-youve-actually-seen-it-no-spoilers-in-op/521626.md?page=7)