# Avatar on DVD: What Did You Think? \[Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 25, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294 "2010-04-25T10:57:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/21 "2010-04-25T21:47:31Z")
> [@gladtobeblazed](#): > > The very definition of a mediocre film. Not good. Not bad. Just meh. It wasn’t in the same league as _Aliens_ or _Terminator 2_, not even as good as _True Lies_. One of Cameron’s worst films. It was better than Titanic in terms of plot, acting, and character development. All still minimalist, yes, but better. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But first a giant robot has to fight a blue person in a knife fight. Why would a giant robot even have a giant knife? For the same reason that SEALs, Rangers, Special Forces, et. al. have knives. Guns are loud, have a limited number of rounds, and are only useful for killing. A knife is quiet, has a limitless number of “rounds”, and can be used for various mundane tasks like notching a tree or prying a mechanism apart. Since a knife also doesn’t take up a lot of room, you may as well have it as a back-up for when the gun is empty. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/22 "2010-04-25T22:52:01Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > [Quote=Justin\_Bailey] > > So Avatar is finally on DVD and after missing it in the theaters I finally sat down to watch it. > > _ **My god was it terrible.** _ Horseshit. [/quote] JB probably didn’t want to swear in his assessment, but calling the movie “terrible” or “horseshit” seems equally fair. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/23 "2010-04-26T00:25:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > For the same reason that SEALs, Rangers, Special Forces, et. al. have knives. Guns are loud, have a limited number of rounds, and are only useful for killing. A knife is quiet, has a limitless number of “rounds”, and can be used for various mundane tasks like notching a tree or prying a mechanism apart. Since a knife also doesn’t take up a lot of room, you may as well have it as a back-up for when the gun is empty. All valid points… that do not apply when the knifewielder is a giant walking mecha. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/24 "2010-04-26T00:36:45Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > All valid points… that do not apply when the knifewielder is a giant walking mecha. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/25 "2010-04-26T07:55:07Z")
I watched it in a theater (which I rarely do) just to see it in 3D (but not iMax). I thought it was an amazing experience, and that the movie would be good (not great) even in 2D. I’m surprised that my biggest complaints with it don’t seem to have been mentioned. It was chock-full of cliches. Why does the native girl that rescues the hapless foreigner allways end up being… … the princess? Is it inconceivable that a regular farm girl could help a foreigner out? And there was one point, during the motivational speech, when I was sure he was going to say “… but they will never take… our freedom!”, and another when I was sure he was going to say “… will be our Independence Day!” I can’t imagine this movie winning any awards if it weren’t for the 3D aspect. (Perhaps everybody was so amazed that the 3d didn’t make you crosseyed or blind.) All in all, it was a decent movie with amazing visuals in the theater. I imagine that watching it in 2D after hearing all the hype would be like watching “The Wizard of OZ” on a B&W TV. You’d have to wonder WTF all the hype was about. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/26 "2010-04-26T08:07:19Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Bows and arrows would never be able to compete against a heavily armored helicopter even with the home field advantage. Granted the invading force had superior tech, but in the end, numbers outweigh tech. You stick something in a helicopter blade and it fails in a big way. And while the small sect of Navi failed in battle, for the finale he called into battle the entire planet’s worth of Na’vi plus all the battle ready animals. Versus one small base. Not surprising they lost. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > which should have caused more than one deserter among the army. Why would this cause desertion? > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But first a giant robot has to fight a blue person in a knife fight. Why would a giant robot even have a giant knife? I don’t remember this part well enough to comment. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But the biggest headscratcher was the Navi’s acceptance of the Avatars. They know that the Avatars are basically just walking, talking robots with a person mentally controlling them somewhere else and yet they don’t find anything weird about this. This was explained in the movie. Jake is rejected until the World Tree spores surrounded Jake, marking him as to be accepted. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I can understand why it made so much money, but why in god’s name was it so critically praised? Was it? I watched it in 3D IMAX several times. It’s possible that it succeeds in this respect far more than it succeeds as a regular movie. Who knows. The plot was, granted, somewhat cliched/archetypal. But so what? It was still epic in scope. And rendered/portrayed in a manner never before possible technologically. Jurassic Park was likewise significant more for the plot per se than the way it was rendered. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/27 "2010-04-26T08:46:30Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > For the same reason that SEALs, Rangers, Special Forces, et. al. have knives. Guns are loud, have a limited number of rounds, and are only useful for killing. A knife is quiet, has a limitless number of “rounds”, and can be used for various mundane tasks like notching a tree or prying a mechanism apart. Since a knife also doesn’t take up a lot of room, you may as well have it as a back-up for when the gun is empty. And again not for the same reason that we don’t put giant knives on tanks. It’s a damn robot, for peep’s sake. Now, what it would really need is a 1920s style Death Ray… ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/28 "2010-04-26T10:07:58Z")
Knife? Pandora’s one big fucking jungle. Vines and branches all over the place, man. You want to SHOOT that shit off? The problem you may have stems from the fact that a walking battlerobot isn’t particularly grounded in reality. You miss the point. IT IS A WALKING BATTLEROBOT. YOUR POINT IS INVALID. This movie is style over substance incarnated. You may not like that, but for what it is, it’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/29 "2010-04-26T13:25:46Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > - **The na’vi were really ugly**. If this is your main alien race in a film you’d think they’d make them appealing. For all of Star Wars faults at least every new character made you say “wow, they look cool”. The na’vi were just not appealing at all. Especially when they tried to give the avatars their hosts features. A Sigourney Weaver avatar? Gross. **And the main female na’vi reminded me of Tyra Banks.** I can not stand her and couldn’t get past this. Does not compute. > [@](#): > > -My favorite characters were actually Giovanni Ribisi and the General guy. I liked these guys. And you’re supposed to hate the bad guys. You sound like my brother, whose commentary about the movie could be summed up as “Great visuals, but I hate that the good guys lost.” ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/30 "2010-04-26T14:14:20Z")
I watched “Dances with Wolves in Space” in the cinema, in 3D and found it incredibly disappointing. I had high hopes for it . But I.M.O. like all too many movies that rely on innovative, not to say spectacular technology, the writers decided to spend their time getting drunk and watching the game. And then do a quick piece of pressure cram writing the night before they were due to hand in their assignment er script. So many cliches, so little movie.’ ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/31 "2010-04-26T14:27:33Z")
I haven’t seen the DVD and don’t plan to buy it. I saw it in the theater. It was awesome. Avatar isn’t the sort of thing you’re going to enjoy if you pick at it a lot, but the I found many of the criticisms raised in this thread weak. The knife was on the mech because the major likes knives. He’s a knife person. Stabbing things is his way of blowing off steam, especially when the things he’s stabbing have faces that he can stab. The Navi didn’t accept the avatars, they knew what they were-- if not how they worked-- and never let any in the tribe until the hero was anointed as the chosen one. There was a whole subplot (made up of about three lines of dialogue and a snooty look) where one of the science nerds was jealous of the hero. The girl turns out to be a princess because it’s an epic. That’s why it’s never a farmer’s daughter. Farmers’ daughters in epics are called scenery. While I haven’t seen Ferngully, I have seen Dances With Wolves, but I wasn’t referencing other movies while I watched Avatar. When I thought about anything other than the story and images, it was mainly two things. First, and what sucked me into the movie is that finally I was watching a movie that was acquainted with the basic science fiction tropes. There’s a lot of science fiction shows I’ve skipped, so I may have missed some good ones, but whenever I try watching one I end up being annoyed at, say, wooshing noises in a vacuum. Man, that does it every time for me. Or big yellow gasoline explosions in a vacuum. Also stupid. Avatar hit a lot of what I consider high quality tropes early on. Like how the air and food was poisonous. That’s actually what you’d expect, right? Humans are evolved for a particular ecosystem, they shouldn’t be able to just happy asshole around on every planet they come across without so much as a dust mask, but that’s what you saw every. single. week. on Star Trek. The hardware in Avatar looked like it was designed to work, not put together to look as cool as possible given a particular budget. (I can’t actually remember what particular piece of hardware I was looking at here, probably the landing craft.) Oh, yeah, suspended animation, that’s a bit of a chestnut, but if it’s possible, yes, you’d want to be asleep during your multi-year voyage. Unlike in, say, Star Wars, where Luke hops in his freaking tiny fighter and jaunts over to another system like he’s taking the highway to the next town over. And then they use an injoke calling unobtainium “Unobtainium”! Man, that was genius. They won me over and I was totally willing to swallow whatever baloney they were serving for the rest of the film. Human DNA + Alien DNA = A-OK? Sure! Planetary organic internet with hair USB ports? Why not! Human-like aliens that happen to have titties and the same nudity taboos as us? OK, my eyes rolled a trifle. But the point is, they tried, and when they tried, and showed that they tried, they won this bitter, burnt, and easily bored ex-science fiction fan over and I had a good time watching the pretty pictures. The other thing I was thinking about was how the hero’s life was sort of similar to being addicted to some sort of escapism, like games or fiction. His life was pretty crap and he was living vicariously. His hygiene appeared to be suffering, he would rather go online than eat. I could identify. I’d still enjoy at least all that above, even on the small screen. Admittedly, most people wouldn’t give a tin fart. Still, so many science fiction movies are these boring atmospheric jobs where the film makers act like they have a mission to be weird for the sake of being weird OR they just make a western or buddy movie or war movie and put it in space and don’t even bother running the script past a high school science teacher. As far as I know (and IMHO, natch), Avatar is the first big action/adventure movie marketed as science fiction that actually meets science fiction criteria, ever, and should get some credit as such. Again, You \* Give \< 1\*Tin Fart. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/32 "2010-04-26T14:52:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It was better than Titanic in terms of plot, acting, and character development. All still minimalist, yes, but better. I really disagree with this. Plot - maybe, I really didn’t like either movie. But character development? People still remember the names Jack and Rose - I have no idea what any of the names in Avatar were, and I doubt many others do either. Acting is subjective, but I really thought the acting in Avatar was piss-poor. The guy playing the main character was really not good. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > All valid points… that do not apply when the knifewielder is a giant walking mecha. You’re really not doing a good job explaining why a giant mecha shouldn’t have a knife. The Navi were said to have carbon fiber running through their body - it’s not a huge stretch to believe other things in the world were similarly reinforced. Giving a giant (expensive) mecha a knife to give it something to untangle with seems like a pretty straightforward solution. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/33 "2010-04-26T15:13:34Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I’d still enjoy at least all that above, even on the small screen. Admittedly, most people wouldn’t give a tin fart. Still, so many science fiction movies are these boring atmospheric jobs where the film makers act like they have a mission to be weird for the sake of being weird OR they just make a western or buddy movie or war movie and put it in space and don’t even bother running the script past a high school science teacher. As far as I know (and IMHO, natch), Avatar is the first big action/adventure movie marketed as science fiction that actually meets science fiction criteria, ever, and should get some credit as such. Again, You \* Give \< 1\*Tin Fart. Ha! This whole paragraph requires Avatar to be original (which no one thinks it is) and the first sci-fi movie marketed as a sci-fi movie (which it’s not). I’m honestly curious how you could even believe such an obviously wrong statement. > [@Munch](#): > > You’re really not doing a good job explaining why a giant mecha shouldn’t have a knife. The Navi were said to have carbon fiber running through their body - it’s not a huge stretch to believe other things in the world were similarly reinforced. Giving a giant (expensive) mecha a knife to give it something to untangle with seems like a pretty straightforward solution. Because the giant mechas were shown as a military weapon. Therefore, they wouldn’t be deployed in any situation that would require a giant knife. The military would (as shown) carpetbomb the area with missiles and push back the vegetation with those big [del]earth[/del] Pandora-movers. It just seems ridiculous to put a big-ass knife in a leg sheath on a walking mecha when another gun or a self-destruct bomb would be more practical for the mecha’s use in the film. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/34 "2010-04-26T15:22:24Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Because the giant mechas were shown as a military weapon. Therefore, they wouldn’t be deployed in any situation that would require a giant knife. The military would (as shown) carpetbomb the area with missiles and push back the vegetation with those big [del]earth[/del] Pandora-movers. I’m not a huge fan of fanwankery, but it doesn’t take the least bit of imagination to come up with why having a military unit flexible enough for reconnaissance to be able to recon outside the limited space created by the earthmovers is a good idea. There are plenty of things in Avatar to hate on. Putting an incredibly useful tool on a mecha isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/35 "2010-04-26T15:43:02Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > It just seems ridiculous to put a big-ass knife in a leg sheath on a walking mecha when another gun or a self-destruct bomb would be more practical for the mecha’s use in the film. It seems a bit more ridiculous for a viewer to arbitrarily declare that it has a narrow, rigidly-defined use and then complain that it has a feature that appear to place it outside of that constraint. Even if we were to accept that narrow defnition, it’s a poor argument. An inexpensive bit of equipment for light clearing/trail-blaizing isn’t an inexplicable feature on a vehicle that might be required to move through overgrown terrain. Even if you dismiss this out of hand, insisting that the device has the single intended use of combat, the argument that no sensible engineer would include a knife rather than additional projectile or explosive weapons makes no sense and presents a false dichotomy – there’s some benefit there for an insignificant cost. Do you have similar objections to modern assault rifles that come equipped with a bayonet lug, rather than a grenade launcher or a larger magazine? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/36 "2010-04-26T16:16:04Z")
My wife and I enjoyed it. We graded it at a B+/A-. As for the knife. Who knows? Who cares? If that’s what you’re stuck over, you need to relax a bit. My $.02 would be that a knife is a tool, good for more than just stabbing things. I own several knifes that I’ve used for countless purposes and never once have I stabbed anyone. What I loved most was the thought that someone read a screenplay of this and built a fantastic world from it. The depth of which could easily spawn writing and future movies the same way LOTR, Star Wars, and Star Trek did. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/37 "2010-04-26T17:08:00Z")
Alright, maybe it’s not as crazy in principle as I think, but I still think the big-ass knifewielding mecha _ **looks** _ ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/38 "2010-04-26T17:12:45Z")
I’ve never seen the movie but if the mecha is very large I absolutely agree with **Justin**. Having a mecha wield a giant knife for the purpose of clearing brush would be exactly as retarded as putting one on a tank for the same reason. Unless it’s man-sized, in which case, never mind. But if it’s tank sized, wtf? Anything the knife would help cut could just be walked through without the knife. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/39 "2010-04-26T17:23:43Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’ve never seen the movie but if the mecha is very large I absolutely agree with **Justin**. Having a mecha wield a giant knife for the purpose of clearing brush would be exactly as retarded as putting one on a tank for the same reason. > > Unless it’s man-sized, in which case, never mind. But if it’s tank sized, wtf? Anything the knife would help cut could just be walked through without the knife. How’s about a tree stuck in the treads of a giant earthmover? Sure would be handy to have a giant knife in such a situation… The mecha is about 15 feet tall. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294/40 "2010-04-26T17:28:42Z")
If it holds the knife in a giant mechanical hand, then no, the hand alone should be able to just grab and pull the tree from the treads easier than a knife could cut it out. Besides, a giant knife isn’t structurally sound. An axe would be much better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatar-on-dvd-what-did-you-think-spoilers/537294.md?page=3)