# Avatars **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 28, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594 "2011-07-28T05:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/61 "2011-07-29T18:16:35Z")
Over on a discussion board for hockey the members are now blocking signatures and avatars. As there is no limit to bad taste. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/62 "2011-07-29T18:18:08Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > If they can’t tell whose posts they are reading by looking at the _poster name_ just on top the post I’m not sure we want them here. People’s brains work differently. If you don’t have problems telling people apart with their names only, that’s great. But some people find it easier when they have some sort of image to help them with this, and this doesn’t mean that “we [don’t] want them here.” Although **Czarcasm** is correct that for this to work best, avatars should be like user names: not easily changeable. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/63 "2011-07-29T18:26:47Z")
I was think ing of changing my Username to \<:8(||||}~~ Then my name would be my avatar – Armadillo! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/64 "2011-07-29T18:46:25Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > And again, I think avatars should be enabled for paying members and staff/SDSAB. Personally, I think avatars should be an extra charge, like custom titles are now. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/65 "2011-07-29T19:18:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any similar looking names you are currently having problems with? We usually try to remedy that situation when it pops up. Well, I’ve had my eye on **Yorick73**. Damn whippersnapper. Oops, I see he joined a year before me. _ahem_ Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/66 "2011-07-29T22:02:42Z")
> [@lukeinva](#): > > Over on a discussion board for hockey the members are now blocking signatures and avatars. As there is no limit to bad taste. And [here’s how you limit it](http://i.imgur.com/6aaUn.png). It’s customizable for every user group, too. The Powers The Be can also [do this](http://i.imgur.com/ob6bR.png) for their default registration option. When displayed, avatars also don’t interrupt the flow of a message when a vBulletin-based site uses the classic thread layout (username, title, avatar, location and post count to the left of a post, instead of above it). [Here’s what it might look like on the Dope](http://i.imgur.com/GfiLk.png). Is that really that horrible? ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/67 "2011-07-29T22:08:31Z")
I’m such a sucker for getting pulled into another avatar thread. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/68 "2011-07-29T22:10:00Z")
Yes it is, and yes you are. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BDBoop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@BDBoop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDBoop)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/69 "2011-07-29T22:20:08Z")
I do apologize, y’all. I should have done a search. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/70 "2011-07-29T22:58:32Z")
A lot of other boards don’t have good moderating in general. Spam posts sit for weeks unnoticed, posts eventually determined to violate some rule of the board are just deleted without note or discussion, there usually isn’t an ATMB where users can make public gripes about moderator decisions and submit them to the [del]peanut gallery[/del] other posters for review. We on the other hand would have a week-long discussion every time one image was deemed to be offensive or copyrighted or taunting to another user, etc. and deleted by a mod. As a board user I am in favor of avatars. But it is hard to imagine how images could be moderated with the level of thoughtfulness that textual posts are moderated at TSDMB. It would have to be something like **Una** suggested above: no frills, no discussion, zero overhead moderating. If a mod believes an image violates any rule or guideline it just gets deleted without discussion and the user gets a mod warning. Enough warnings leads to being banned whatever they were for so it shouldn’t require a new type of warning or being insta banned on the first offense. Even the insta-ban solution sounds like it would be hours of extra mod work per week. There would be constant appeals to these actions even though they were stated as being final. Mods would have to check each image, not just for blatant violations but subtle ones (an obscure copyrighted work, [reflectoporn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflectoporn), etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/71 "2011-07-29T23:12:44Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > And again, I think avatars should be enabled for paying members and staff/SDSAB. This solves so many problems: > > - People who want them can have them. > > - Trolls, spammers, and other idiots don’t generally fork out cash to then do their best to break the rules. And staff have to be trusted to some extent, otherwise why are they in the position they’re in? > > - As has been posted a billion times before, anyone who doesn’t want to see the avatars can opt-out with a single button click. > > Like it or not, avatars attract new members and views. This increases advertising revenue. Increased revenue means better SDMB health. > > If the Staff on here think that they will have problems Moderating, then talk to Ed. Tell him the plan is quite simply “zero tolerance” with avatars. Porn/goatse avatar? Avatar that tries to circumvent the rules? Avatar that gets a legitimate copyright violation claim? Then that’s a banning, no suspensions, no waffling, the Moderator just clicks the button and moves on with life. > > Simple, elegant, and munificent. This is a far more - oh, what’s the word - intelligent set of arguments. Making avatars a part of membership would do a couple of other good things. It would force people to put money where their mouths are. If they really supported the Board they would be paying for it now, after all. And it might end all the threads in which people complain about ads - which, as has been pointed out many times, they would never see if they became members. I don’t believe that it would attract many more new members than we get now, but it would force additional revenue just from the freeloaders today. What I totally disagree with is your last paragraph. Most people don’t have a clue what is a copyright violation in an avatar and I’m 100% confident that includes every single moderator. I don’t know how other boards handle it, but my guess is that they ignore the issue most of the time. That makes instant bans impossible, now and in the future. I can’t imagine how the mods would handle a couple of thousand avatars popping up at once but if they want to approve them they shouldn’t get to complain about the work involved. Here’s another suggestion: limit any threads about avatars to a few forums. I don’t understand the concept of people needing avatars to tell posters apart, but I will concede that I’m a non-visual word person, so if people tell me it’s a problem then it is. The counter to it is that avatars instantly lower the apparent IQ of a site by half. We’re getting lots of new people from Google searches. They won’t be able to turn off avatars, so that’s the first thing they’ll see about the site. As a non-visual word person, that’s enough for me to come down against avatars forever. More revenue is the only argument that would convince me. We haven’t heard any moaning from Ed for a while so we don’t know how bad or good the current picture is. Let’s get some actual facts. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/72 "2011-07-29T23:29:27Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Like it or not, avatars attract new members and views. Yes, we’ll have a lot more 14-year-olds. Maybe real ones this time. > [@BDBoop](#): > > I do apologize, y’all. I should have done a search. Hmmm. Says “y’all” but is in Minnesota. Maybe southern Minnesota? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BDBoop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@BDBoop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDBoop)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/73 "2011-07-29T23:38:47Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Yes, we’ll have a lot more 14-year-olds. Maybe real ones this time. > > Hmmm. Says “y’all” but is in Minnesota. Maybe southern Minnesota? 😉 The internet has nationalized me. 😛 I’m one of those people who talk to people in other states, and have an accent by the end of the call. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/74 "2011-07-30T00:04:05Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Really? So since 99% of boards have avatars I’m going to guess that this is the only board you visit since you’ve made it clear you do not want to hang out with any of “those types”. Unless I’m looking for something very specific, yes it is. And when I am looking for that something specific and I see everyone’s avatars and whatnot (usually because I am just a guest), I find what I want and get out, never to return. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/75 "2011-07-30T00:09:12Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > On this board, you have to use words to impress people, not a fancy flashing picture. Like when we’re talking about say, pan-fried semen, or squeeing over cat pictures? (Hey, there’s one – how many cute cat avatars will we see?) ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/76 "2011-07-30T00:53:44Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > You do? Is it possible to post images on the SDMB, or do you mean that the spammers post links to images? > > And of course, if avatars are ever permitted here, this could be greatly avoided by only permitting members with a certain number of posts (doesn’t have to be large, something like 10 or 30) to post an avatar or inline pictures. Or hey, here’s a suggestion **Ed** would like: make having an avatar a perk of paying membership! 😉 Currently, images are enabled in the Marketplace forum (which everyone can read, but only subscribers are allowed to start threads in) and the various moderation boards (which only the moderation staff can read). Here’s the rule for the Marketplace images: “The person starting the thread may post images that are relevant to the item or service being offered. You may only post pictures if you are the OP (that is, in your own threads). Please use this feature judiciously. We may review this policy later.” As a general rule, spammers don’t custom write posts for a specific message board. They have a prewritten post, and their goal is to hit as many message boards as possible as quickly as possible. Some will post just once on a particular MB, while others will post in every forum of a message board. And then we have the ones who actually aren’t commercial spammers, but who want to Get Their Message Out. These people tend to post about God, or the Trilateral Commission, or the New World Order. I remember one guy was convinced that all workplaces had gigolos for the female workers. He’d hit this place every now and then. These true believers will generally come back to the same message boards, posting the same thing, on a regular basis. And personally, when I find a spammer who’s posted once or twice, and is in the process of creating a new thread, I enjoy banning him/her right on the spot. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/77 "2011-07-30T02:25:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Most people don’t have a clue what is a copyright violation in an avatar and I’m 100% confident that includes every single moderator. I don’t know how other boards handle it, but my guess is that they ignore the issue most of the time. [Fair use doctrine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use). From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include: > > ``` > the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; > the nature of the copyrighted work; > the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and > the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. > > ``` I’ve NEVER heard of a forum operator getting sued by … oh, Fox, because someone is using a Bart Simpson avatar. Can anyone find a case where it’s happened? Those with access to Lexis/Nexis or Westlaw: any case where a message board got sued because an avatar was perceived to violate copyright law? Anything? I tried searching, and found nothing. Anyhow, in talking with other message board operators, there seems to be agreement that small avatars fall under the fair use doctrine. I’d like to hear an argument about how they don’t fall under the fair use doctrine; every time I’ve bought this up in the past, nobody has addressed it. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/78 "2011-07-30T03:14:46Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > And [here’s how you limit it](http://i.imgur.com/6aaUn.png). It’s customizable for every user group, too. The Powers The Be can also [do this](http://i.imgur.com/ob6bR.png) for their default registration option. > > When displayed, avatars also don’t interrupt the flow of a message when a vBulletin-based site uses the classic thread layout (username, title, avatar, location and post count to the left of a post, instead of above it). [Here’s what it might look like on the Dope](http://i.imgur.com/GfiLk.png). Is that really that horrible? Yea, I don’t like that. A lot of the reason I don’t like it is I do a lot of my Dope reading on my phone and really don’t need space being taken up by things like that. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/79 "2011-07-30T03:24:46Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > [Fair use doctrine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use). From Wikipedia: > > I’ve NEVER heard of a forum operator getting sued by … oh, Fox, because someone is using a Bart Simpson avatar. Can anyone find a case where it’s happened? Those with access to Lexis/Nexis or Westlaw: any case where a message board got sued because an avatar was perceived to violate copyright law? Anything? I tried searching, and found nothing. > > Anyhow, in talking with other message board operators, there seems to be agreement that small avatars fall under the fair use doctrine. I’d like to hear an argument about how they don’t fall under the fair use doctrine; every time I’ve bought this up in the past, nobody has addressed it. I’m as guilty as everybody else about this. I blindly copied the talk about copyright from earlier posts. I still know don’t what is acceptable fair use for copyrighted images, but a half second’s thought should have told me that the proper question to ask is: What about trademark violation? There is no such thing as fair use for trademarks. Trademarks must be pursued diligently (which isn’t the technical term, but it’s late). I will bet large sums without searching that people have been told to stop using trademarks. I know that in its guidelines Twitter forbids the use of trademarked avatars - or copyrighted ones, for that matter. These cases virtually never go to lawsuits, because they can’t be won and the other side always has deeper pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594/80 "2011-07-30T03:36:24Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Yea, I don’t like that. A lot of the reason I don’t like it is I do a lot of my Dope reading on my phone and really don’t need space being taken up by things like that. Well then, you’d have the option to disable it. See? Easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy. Besides, do you really think we’d have a problem around HERE with goatsec? I predict cats, Monty Python, lots of RPG games, and different sports teams (depending on which season it is. Baseball icons would be popular now, then people would switch to their football teams around the Super Bowl, etc) I’d probably use a Penguins-related one during hockey season. You’d see a LOT of nerdy stuff. And very few boards allow animated avatars. You could even have ONE thread in ATMB where you could request that people make icons for you. I for one would be more than happy to do so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avatars/590594.md?page=5)