# Ave Maria **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399 "2001-11-27T00:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TwoBuyFour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/76d3ee/32.png) [@TwoBuyFour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoBuyFour)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/1 "2001-11-27T00:27:57Z")
This may seem like a dumb question, but it’s been bugging me. I assume that the song Ave Maria is about Jesus’ mom, Mary. However, I can’t find confirmation of this anywhere, including an SDMB search. I’ve only know of the song for a few years, so I’m putting it to the masses to see if anyone knows how old this song is, and if it’s really about what I think it is. Your help is appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/2 "2001-11-27T00:30:20Z")
It is about her, and I think it’s more or less the “Hail Mary” in Latin. ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/3 "2001-11-27T01:37:46Z")
It is Hail Mary, but that’s the extent of my Latin. Here’s a [site with the lyrics](http://elyrics4u.com/music/lyrics4u/display/lyrics/?ID=2497), if someone better versed in dead tongues wants to give it a whirl. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/4 "2001-11-27T02:07:55Z")
The famous “Ave Maria”, the one with the music written by Franz Schubert is in German. I think the lyrics that peepthis posted are actually the prayer, not the familiar song. The German words are actually a translation of a poem in English written by Sir Walter Scott. I’ll see if I can google it - stand by. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/5 "2001-11-27T02:26:14Z")
In English, it would be like the Hail Mary: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, prayer for us sinners, now and at the hour of death. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/6 "2001-11-27T02:26:17Z")
The lyrics peepthis posted are roughtly a translation of the prayer (which is what I was trying to say,but did badly).According to this link [www.brave.com/bo/lyrics/avemaria.htm,the](http://www.brave.com/bo/lyrics/avemaria.htm,the) Shubert one is the one in Latin. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/7 "2001-11-27T02:36:21Z")
The _other_ famous one, the Bach/Gounod version, is also in Latin, of course, and should have approximately the same lyrics overall, give or take a lengthening or shortening of a phrase here & there to make it fit the music. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/8 "2001-11-27T04:39:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Manduck \* > \*\*I’ll see if I can google it - stand by. \*\* Google has let me down - I couldn’t find a cite on the web, so I will have to make do by citing the liner notes of a Philips CD of Ave Maria and other Schubert Lieder (Philips 420 870-2) Elley Ameling and Dalton Baldwin. The liner notes are by Karl Schumann, copyright 1987 Philips Classic Productions. They say: > [@](#): > > One of Schubert’s most popular songs is the “Ave Maria”, written in April 1825 as “Ellen’s Song III”, following Storck’s translation of lines from Sir Walter Scott’s verse epic “The Lady of the Lake”. It also says that Schubert hoped that (quoting Schubert) > [@](#): > > “it might arouse more interest by carrying at its head the honoured name of Scott, and by the addition of the English words would make me better known in England as well” The full lyrics are also included in the notes, in both German and English. Here is the first stanza (I’m too lazy to transcribe the whole thing), first in the German, then in English: German: > [@](#): > > Ave Maria! Jungfrau mild, > Erhöre einer Jungfrau Flehen, > Aus diesem Felsen starr und wild > Soll mein Gebet zu dir hin wehen. > Wir Schlafen sicher bis zum Morgen, > Ob Menschen noch so grausam sind. > O Jungfrau, sieh’ der Jungfrau Sorgen, > O Mutter, hör’ ein bittend Kind! English: > [@](#): > > Ave Maria! maiden mild! > Listen to a maiden’s prayer! > Thou canst hear though from the wild, > Thou canst save amidst despair. > Safe may we sleep beneath thy care, > Though banish’d outcast, and reviled - > Maiden! hear a maiden’s prayer; > Mother, hear a suppliant child! > Ave Maria! As far as the latin lyrics go, it looks like somebody, post-Schubert, fit the latin prayer to his melody. Schubert wrote the music for Storck’s German translation of Scott’s English. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/9 "2001-11-27T04:43:51Z")
“Ave Maria” is most commonly played to J.S. Bach’s Prelude in C Major from Volume 1 of the Ill Tempered Clavier. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/10 "2001-11-27T05:08:40Z")
The first half of the “Hail Mary” is taken from the gospel of Luke, chapter 1, verses 28 and 42. There are many settings of the “Ave Maria”, of which the Schubert and the Bach-Gounod are just the two most well-known. Another was by the composer Vittoria, which was based on a Gregorian chant version. I have heard the Schubert sung with the Latin lyrics many times. IIRC, in the 50s and the first part of the 60s when I was a kid, the Schubert was not supposed to be sung in church (even with the prayer lyrics) just because of the original Scott lyrics. I actually remember the choir director (who was training to be a priest) saying it was “obscene”. Of course, by the standards of that day it was pretty racy - Ellen and her lover weren’t married, and that was simply not acceptable. Things sure have changed. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/11 "2001-11-27T05:23:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > **In English, it would be like the Hail Mary:** [list][list][list][list]\*\*Probably Doug Fluties …favorite song… [list];)[sup]Go deep[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![TwoBuyFour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/76d3ee/32.png) [@TwoBuyFour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoBuyFour)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/12 "2001-11-27T10:39:55Z")
Thank you all very much for your insight. Actually, the version that I own is by Liberace, and the only lyrics are “Ave Maria” over and over by some chick who sings hauntingly, but gets no credit on the CD liner notes. I’ll look in to some of the other versions. Thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![royjwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@royjwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/royjwood)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/13 "2001-11-27T13:17:30Z")
Even though I am not Catholic, I really do enjoy listening to Ave Maria, in latin, that is, and preferably performed by Perry Como. As a vocal performer, I also enjoy singing it, too. You can find not only the lyrics in both English and Latin, but it will also play the Perry Como version at this link: [http://www.thedeskof.com/thoughts/ave\_maria.htm](http://www.thedeskof.com/thoughts/ave_maria.htm) Enjoy, ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/14 "2001-11-27T22:38:34Z")
_Originally posted by Kniz_ > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia > > In English, it would be like the Hail Mary: > > Probably Doug Fluties > …favorite song… > > Go deep I had a wisecrack ready to respond to this, but on second thought, I’ll pass. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/15 "2001-11-27T23:07:44Z")
I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Shyabrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@Shyabrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shyabrick)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ave-maria/95399/16 "2001-11-27T23:42:05Z")
Just out of curiousity, why do song lyrics still rhyme even after translation? Are they making up new words so that they WILL rhyme?