# Avengers: Endgame SEEN IT thread - SPOILERS AHOY! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [April 24, 2019, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981 "2019-04-24T08:50:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/221 "2019-04-29T17:54:17Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Oh. > My. > GOD. > > That was the most incredible spectacle ever put to film. I can’t imagine how they’ll ever top this. > It basically gave me everything I wanted out of the movie. I have nothing at all to complain about. That was me. I geeked out. I cried. I laughed. Watching Cap wield Mjolnir made it for me. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/222 "2019-04-29T18:04:59Z")
Miller: > [@](#): > > No, they’re definitely dead. There’s no way the film makers would use the exact same disintegration effect if we’re meant to understand that Tony’s just putting them back in the past. That would just be spectacularly inept film making. Well, it’s a better dramatic effect if it looks like the good guys got back tit-for-tat what Thanos did in the first movie. But since these guys travelled forward from 2014, and have been engaged in activity after that point that led to the current battle, there’s a serious causality problem. Not to mention Nebula “killing” her past self. > [@](#): > > Also, again, time paradoxes are specifically described as impossible in this film’s time travel model. You go back in time and try to change things, you don’t alter the time you came from, you just create an alternative timeline. That’s what the Ancient One said would happen IF the stones weren’t returned to whence they were stolen from. But Hulk promised to do it, and Cap did it, so there should be only the one timeline. > [@](#): > > That’s the entire reason the Avenger’s plan was, “Go back in time and get the stones, use them to undo the Snap,” and not, “Go back in time and strangle Thanos as a baby so the Snap never happens.” The latter wouldn’t change anything in their universe. No, the latter couldn’t happen because it would create a paradox. They understood the danger or impossibility of undoing events that led to their present situation. > [@](#): > > Also, as noted, Tony Stark is absolutely willing to kill. Practically the first thing he does when he builds his first Iron Man suit is hose down a bunch of terrorists with napalm. As noted in my prior post, he doesn’t like doing it, it troubles him greatly. With the ability to snap any conclusion he wants (even aside from my second point - he knows that paradox would be a bad thing), he would not knowingly choose the one that kills a zillion folks. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/223 "2019-04-29T18:05:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > “Maybe I am.” Apparently they did release a [Rocket BAB](https://ew.com/movies/2017/04/18/guardians-galaxy-build-a-bear/) when GotG 2 came out, along with several other Guardians. They’ve been discontinued, but you can get a [Thanos, Iron Man, or Hulk bear](https://www.buildabear.com/collections/shop-by-character/marvel) right now, along with many others. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/224 "2019-04-29T18:13:50Z")
Thanos says that he eliminated half the life of all sorts. I don’t see why it’s necessary to eliminate any life except for the humans if I understand his goal correctly. All of the species on Earth exist in balance and this system worked fine for millions of years, at least until the humans started to mess things up. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/225 "2019-04-29T18:36:46Z")
I can see that I have an overly developed ‘suspension of disbelief’ gland. Oh, not due to Endgame. Saw it and Loved it and didn’t hardly have to exercise it at all. It’s just that watching this thread, I realize nobody could possibly make a movie where someone wasn’t all Comic book guy disappointed over it. I mean, it doesn’t have NEAR the plot holes of Star Trek Discovery and I’m pretty entertained by that, too. The women teamed up. The ‘gang pose’ is a well known trope in MCU movies and this was just another one. the Unfazed Marvel Head-Butt was AWESOME…as was Thanos improvising with the power stone to gain the upper hand. and of COURSE a morphing nano-tech Stark Hand would interface and be Stark Controllable. That was also AWESOME. And Cap got his girl in the end. (Awesome) And I thought we were doomed, like, three different times during the end battle. (Awesome)…And Fat Thor (The irony of having a hafthor in GOT is not lost on me). And the only spoiler I had going into it was Professor Hulk (in an ad, in the background of IMDB of all places.) which made the whole thing really enjoyable. And Rabbit talking Thor down…and Thor getting closure with Mom…and…and…and. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/226 "2019-04-29T18:39:50Z")
The Wall of Women totally did it for me and my 16 year old daughter - considering we are the exact demographic that the MCU was reaching out to with that scene, then well done Russo Brothers! We loved the fact that both Wanda and Carol were not able to be beaten “on their own”. For the Scarlet Witch, Thanos had to “rain fire” and kill a bunch of his own troops, and for Captain Marvel he had to _ **punch her with the power stone** _. They are totally kickass and I loved every second they were on screen. We were anxiously waiting for Carol to show up, and as soon as the ship started firing at an (unknown target) we knew, and there was a celebration in our row (weirdly, the entire row was women, save one Dad near the end). I also loved the amount of trust The Ancient One has in Dr. Strange, even though she has not even met him yet. She knows, as soon as Bruce (Grey Hulk?) says “Dr. Strange handed it to Thanos” that there was a plan, and it was a good one. The death of Iron Man was sad, but not unexpected and I was delighted that Cap finally got his life with Peggy. If he hadn’t, I would have been **PISSED**. The scene that got me crying though was Thor with his Mom. She said exactly what he needed to hear, and I thought about what I would give for five more minutes with my mom. Excellent movie! Perfect wrap-up, and I **can’t wait** for another Captain Marvel (she is my current fave), or Dr. Strange. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/227 "2019-04-29T18:59:21Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Well, it’s a better dramatic effect if it looks like the good guys got back tit-for-tat what Thanos did in the first movie. But since these guys travelled forward from 2014, and have been engaged in activity after that point that led to the current battle, there’s a serious causality problem. Not to mention Nebula “killing” her past self. Just from a craft point of view, they established a particular visual effect in Infinity Wars that meant, “this person just disintegrated.” If they later use the exact same visual effect, in apparently the exact same situation, only now it means, “This person was just teleported,” that’s really bad film making. > [@](#): > > That’s what the Ancient One said would happen IF the stones weren’t returned to whence they were stolen from. But Hulk promised to do it, and Cap did it, so there should be only the one timeline. That’s what happens if you make any significant changes to the timeline. Banner had already established this before they went back in time, when he was explaining why they didn’t just go back and kill Thanos as a baby. The Ancient One refused to give up the Time Stone, because without the Time Stone, that particular alternate timeline ends with everybody dying, because Doctor Strange doesn’t have the Time Stone to beat Dormammu a few years later. Banner offers to return the Time Stone, so that particular timeline (one where Dormammu destroys the Earth) doesn’t happen. That doesn’t mean that other alternate timelines weren’t created in the movie. There’s absolutely a new timeline where Thanos never gets any of the stones, because he traveled to the future and died there. There’s a new timeline where Steve Rogers shows up a little after his plane went into the ice, and spends a life time with Peggy. There’s a timeline where Loki escaped immediately after the Battle of New York, instead of being imprisoned on Asgard. > [@](#): > > No, the latter couldn’t happen because it would create a paradox. They understood the danger or impossibility of undoing events that led to their present situation. There’s literally multiple conversations in the movie where they dismiss the problem of paradoxes caused by time travel. They’re really super explicit about this. > [@](#): > > As noted in my prior post, he doesn’t like doing it, it troubles him greatly. With the ability to snap any conclusion he wants (even aside from my second point - he knows that paradox would be a bad thing), he would not knowingly choose the one that kills a zillion folks. I don’t really think that read is supported by how he’s been portrayed in any of the movies. He’s never showed any qualms about killing people who are actively threatening lives. He got fucked up with PTSD because he almost died himself, and he was having trouble with the responsibility of being the guy responsible for saving the world, but there’s never a hint that he’s got any fundamental problems with taking lives. ---
**Author:** ![StraightTalk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straighttalk/32/9982_2.png) [@StraightTalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StraightTalk)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/228 "2019-04-29T19:12:39Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > I’m kinda wondering - a sacrifice is required to acquire the Soul stone…but what happens when someone does the reverse? Gives up the Soul stone? Does that, maybe, require a straight swap back? The Soul stone does seem kinda Lawful… > It’s certainly an explanation I could bite off, if Natasha returns in present day. > > That said, I’d like to see the prequel treatment - maybe we’d find out what happened in Budapest! YES! I want to know the Black Widow/Hawkeye story in Budapest. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/229 "2019-04-29T19:16:01Z")
Yay. I’ll jump back into an argument that I think I had hand in starting. The All Women All-Stars: The framing of the scene, and the logistics of how they all came together, is too deep a dive. The framing and the logistics came straight out of comic books. Go figure. In comic books you generally wouldn’t see pages and pages of sweeping scenes to let you know that all the women are fighting at once. You’d get a splash page - just like what we saw in the movie. **Banquet Bear** - I agree with your points. I guess the reason I didn’t get your analogy is that it’s a little off-kilter. “Avengers Assemble” is a tag line - I think it’s been said in every Avengers movie (I could be wrong). The all female fighting force is a special event. So I didn’t really get why you were comparing the two - truthfully I thought you were going down the same road of complaining about logistical issues in a comic book movie - but again, I generally agree with your points regarding that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/230 "2019-04-29T19:22:08Z")
> [@brossa](#): > > I think it’s fair to say that nine female heroes converging at once takes you out of the moment Yup, that was my issue. I know why they did it, I’m sure lots of little girls cheered, but it totally jerked me out of the moment. I _noticed_ it. In the OG Avengers the iconic scene with them fighting back-to-back fit into the sequence a lot better and while it was clearly contrived, it didn’t feel inorganic. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/231 "2019-04-29T19:26:45Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > **Banquet Bear** - I agree with your points. I guess the reason I didn’t get your analogy is that it’s a little off-kilter. “Avengers Assemble” is a tag line - I think it’s been said in every Avengers movie (I could be wrong). The all female fighting force is a special event. So I didn’t really get why you were comparing the two - truthfully I thought you were going down the same road of complaining about logistical issues in a comic book movie - but again, I generally agree with your points regarding that scene. Actually, they’ve made it a point never to say “Avengers Assemble” in any previous MCU movie. They were saving it for the maximum moment of awesomeness. At the end of “Ultron”, when Cap is addressing the new Avengers, he starts to say it, but they cut to black before he says “Assemble”. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/232 "2019-04-29T19:35:45Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > As noted in my prior post, he doesn’t like doing it, it troubles him greatly. With the ability to snap any conclusion he wants (even aside from my second point - he knows that paradox would be a bad thing), he would not knowingly choose the one that kills a zillion folks. You can say that all you want, but it’s just not supported by the evidence. Here’s Tony [killing Savin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGnE7NVzpVk&t=50s) and making a quip about it. Here’s Tony [attempting to kill Killian](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXHPnCoQs0g#t=45s), though Pepper had to finish him off afterwards. Here’s Tony [killing Ebony Maw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lOY2hGPrbc#t=1m20s). with another quip. So claiming that Tony won’t kill Thanos, Ebony Maw & the rest of the Black Order, and thousands of mindless vicious outriders, who are all intent on killing ALL OF HUMANITY, because “it troubles him greatly” is preposterous. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/233 "2019-04-29T20:34:32Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Actually, they’ve made it a point never to say “Avengers Assemble” in any previous MCU movie. They were saving it for the maximum moment of awesomeness. At the end of “Ultron”, when Cap is addressing the new Avengers, he starts to say it, but they cut to black before he says “Assemble”. Okay. Maybe it was a special event. Still a tagline though. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/234 "2019-04-29T20:36:59Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > You can say that all you want, but it’s just not supported by the evidence. > > Here’s Tony [killing Savin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGnE7NVzpVk&t=50s) and making a quip about it. > > Here’s Tony [attempting to kill Killian](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXHPnCoQs0g#t=45s), though Pepper had to finish him off afterwards. > > Here’s Tony [killing Ebony Maw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lOY2hGPrbc#t=1m20s). with another quip. > > So claiming that Tony won’t kill Thanos, Ebony Maw & the rest of the Black Order, and thousands of mindless vicious outriders, who are all intent on killing ALL OF HUMANITY, because “it troubles him greatly” is preposterous. I think the biggest difference between the MCU and the various DC movies is that the MCU doesn’t spend too much time hand wringing about killing. I can only think of three times it comes up: 1. Banner gets upset when Thor tells him the Hulk killed a bunch of soldiers (and then backtracks by saying they were just severely injured) 2. Dr. Strange gets upset about killing, because of the Hippocratic Oath. 3. Spider-man doesn’t want to kill and saves Vulture, which fits him because he’s just a kid. The Big 3 don’t have any qualms. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/235 "2019-04-29T20:41:50Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > The Big 3 don’t have any qualms. Doubly so after living 5 years with the results of them failing to stop Thanos. I could see RDJ/Tony Stark having enough of Thanos’ shit and ending any part of it that could come back later. Which begs the question…Is Thanos gone, or in the Soul Stone? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/236 "2019-04-29T20:44:48Z")
Y’know, I wonder if Tony took the opportunity to snap all Hydra members out of existence while he was either putting Thanos and crew back where they belonged, sans memories, or deleting them completely. And I still want to know why it’s necessary to snap your fingers to get the gauntlet to do its thing. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/237 "2019-04-29T20:48:46Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > No, it shows that (as mentioned many times previously) Captain Marvel has fluctuating Plot Power where she can face-smash her way through an entire starship one second and get stopped by a couple mooks the next. It wasn’t a question of “Could she have done it?”, it was “Let’s frame this so we can show these women doing stuff as a team”. …but this isn’t what bucketybuck was talking about. Captain Marvel wasn’t stopped by a couple of mooks. She was taken out by Thanos. Seconds before that happened A-Force hit Thanos and knocked him over. bucketybuck argues that Captain Marvel didn’t need any help. But she obviously did. > [@](#): > > He understood that perfectly well. No he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/238 "2019-04-29T21:19:36Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Y’know, I wonder if Tony took the opportunity to snap all Hydra members out of existence while he was either putting Thanos and crew back where they belonged, sans memories, or deleting them completely. > > And I still want to know why it’s necessary to snap your fingers to get the gauntlet to do its thing. It’s a macro; the actual list of mental commands is lengthy, sensitive to ambiguous natural language, and hangs up over trivial shit like em-dash vs en-dash. “I wish to have my parents over for dinner” Oh no! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/239 "2019-04-29T21:19:45Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Which begs the question…Is Thanos gone, or in the Soul Stone? There was no implication that the dusted ended up in the Soul Stone like some people hypothesized. Peter said it felt like he passed out and then woke up on Titan five years later. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/240 "2019-04-29T23:34:58Z")
That music at Tony Stark’s funeral/memorial was amazing. I hope they actually got everyone on set to film that cool camera movement where it went through the full cast. Maybe they composited it, but I want to believe they really shot it. [Here is the music from that moment, which really elevated it.](https://youtu.be/QMe8e5GcY0c?t=200) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981.md?page=13)