# Avengers: Endgame SEEN IT thread - SPOILERS AHOY! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [April 24, 2019, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981 "2019-04-24T08:50:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/801 "2021-04-27T16:46:57Z")
That’s an interesting theory, but a newly created Vision was already able to lift Mjolnir, and that was presented as evidence that Vision was a worthy hero, not a villain. So it’s already been proven to be a hammer that someone other than Thor can lift. And of course in Thor:Ragnarok, Hela was not only able to lift it, she actually shattered it. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/802 "2021-04-27T16:50:14Z")
indeed. that really jumps out now. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/803 "2021-04-27T16:57:17Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > That’s an interesting theory, but a newly created Vision was already able to lift Mjolnir, and that was presented as evidence that Vision was a worthy hero, not a villain. Fair enough. I’ll admit that I barely remember Age of Ultron (I assume that has the scene you’re mentioning) as I only watched it once and found it ho-hum. But I defer to your point and probably wouldn’t have made mine if I had remembered it. Hela, I assume, was less “worthy” and more “really strong; strong enough to defy things like ‘This Hammer is only for worthy people’.” I don’t think anyone took “Hela must be a great and noble person” out of that scene. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/804 "2021-04-27T16:59:43Z")
Hela didn’t so much ‘lift it’ as ‘catch it’ and ‘hang on to it’ causing it to shatter. Others have been able to ‘catch it’ and be carried by it - but specifically ‘lifting it’ is only for the ‘worthy’. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/805 "2021-04-27T17:16:16Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > And of course in Thor:Ragnarok, Hela was not only able to lift it, she actually shattered it. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Hela, I assume, was less “worthy” and more “really strong; strong enough to defy things like ‘This Hammer is only for worthy people’.” I don’t think anyone took “Hela must be a great and noble person” out of that scene. > [@simster](#): > > Hela didn’t so much ‘lift it’ as ‘catch it’ and ‘hang on to it’ causing it to shatter. > > Others have been able to ‘catch it’ and be carried by it - but specifically ‘lifting it’ is only for the ‘worthy’. I personally took that scene as indicating Hela’s _magic_ was as powerful as Odin’s, indeed more powerful, and she was able to ignore his enchantments. The “only the worthy” bit and the indestructible uru\* were just irrelevant to her because her magic was so ungodly\*\* powerful. That was pretty much the point of her character - Odin had to lock her away because she wasn’t a lesser god, like the rest of the Asgardians. She wasn’t even an equal. She was too powerful for Odin to handle any other way, and while Odin eventually came to regret the early wars of conquest and bloodshed, and learned the wisdom of limiting his own power, Hela reveled in them. And of course narratively it’s just a bad-ass shock moment, like Thanos casually destroying Cap’s “indestructible” shield, to ratchet up the stakes. \*Did the MCU ever establish the existence of uru? \*\*Pun very much intended. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/806 "2021-04-27T17:20:41Z")
The remaining unresolved issue for me was whether Thor was ever going to work off the self-pity party weight. He still looked pretty chubby at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/807 "2021-04-27T17:26:32Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > That’s an interesting theory, but a newly created Vision was already able to lift Mjolnir, and that was presented as evidence that Vision was a worthy hero, not a villain. So it’s already been proven to be a hammer that someone other than Thor can lift. And of course in Thor:Ragnarok, Hela was not only able to lift it, she actually shattered it. Vision is also a special case, though, in that Mjolnir also had a direct hand in creating him - it’s lightning from the hammer that is the final spark that animates Vision, after Thor had a mystical, um, vision that Tony’s second robot needed to be completed if they wanted to defeat Tony’s first robot. Vision was created worthy to lift Mjolnir, as opposed to Thor (and Steve) who had to earn it through their actions. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/808 "2021-04-27T17:26:45Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > I personally took that scene as indicating Hela’s _magic_ was as powerful as Odin’s, indeed more powerful, and she was able to ignore his enchantments. The “only the worthy” bit and the indestructible uru\* were just irrelevant to her because her magic was so ungodly\*\* powerful. That was pretty much the point of her character - Odin had to lock her away because she wasn’t a lesser god, like the rest of the Asgardians. She wasn’t even an equal. She was too powerful for Odin to handle any other way, and while Odin eventually came to regret the early wars of conquest and bloodshed, and learned the wisdom of limiting his own power, Hela reveled in them. Also, we learn later in the movie that Hela was the original wielder of Mjolnir. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/809 "2021-04-27T17:29:16Z")
I honestly appreciated that Thor getting over his depression didn’t magically make him fit again. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/810 "2021-04-27T17:36:28Z")
Yeah, I think I _expected_ that it would be “Now we get Old Thor back 'cause he’s a superhero again!” but, nah, his mind and heart might be back in the right place but he’s still gonna have to hit the gym. I noticed and appreciated the subversion. Of course, even out-of-shape Thor is still a god and all. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/811 "2021-04-27T17:46:56Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Of course, even out-of-shape Thor is still a god and all. Yeah, but not ‘in charge’. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/812 "2021-04-27T17:51:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The remaining unresolved issue for me was whether Thor was ever going to work off the self-pity party weight. He still looked pretty chubby at the end. That’s kind of a shitty way to refer to PTSD and depression. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/813 "2021-04-27T17:54:00Z")
Apparently the plan was for Thor to be back in shape for the battle finale, but Chris Hemsworth [argued to keep Lebowski Thor through the entire movie.](https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/chris-hemsworth-lebowski-thor-endgame) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/814 "2021-04-27T17:55:30Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > That’s kind of a shitty way to refer to PTSD and depression. I agree. The movie creators and producers should hear about how insensitive they were for making light of such a serious topic and treating the fictional character with such disrespect. I plan to boycott all subsequent re-runs. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/815 "2021-04-27T18:13:43Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Apparently the plan was for Thor to be back in shape for the battle finale, but Chris Hemsworth [argued to keep Lebowski Thor through the entire movie.](https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/chris-hemsworth-lebowski-thor-endgame) Tip of the hat to Hemsworth, then ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/816 "2021-04-27T18:17:14Z")
“You look like melted ice cream.” “Is he asleep?” “No, pretty sure he’s dead.” “Eat a salad.” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/817 "2021-04-27T18:21:36Z")
Yep. Some of the best lines. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/818 "2021-04-27T18:43:56Z")
It’s notable, though, that those are character lines - Rocket and Tony, I think - who are both notable assholes. Narratively, the film doesn’t make his extra weight a joke - there’s no scenes where he can’t fit through a narrow opening, or struggles putting on his old armor, and it doesn’t use it as a metaphor for anything - he gained weight because his depression caused him to change his eating and exercising habit, but it doesn’t magically go away when his depression lifts, and it’s not conflated with him being “worthy” or useful in combat. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/819 "2021-04-27T18:45:52Z")
I have a theory and ill repeat it when Loki starts up…that Cap CANT fix time by returning the stones, all he can do is create a ANOTHER new timeline in sync with the old one Ex: If anyone has seen the Loki trailer, they show the TVA “Time Monitor” going nuts with all kinds of branches appearing off the ‘way time should go’…imagine one branch (Say thats Tony stealing the infinity stone in the branch where he talks to his dad) then that line branches off in the vague direction of the main timeline (Thats Steve returning the stone)…but as seen on the monitor all Steve did was create a new branch that will intersect with the main one. The first branch keeps going away from the main one. Anyway…I think it would be cool if Loki not only has to deal with his own variants but various fuck-ups by the Avengers, and then Steve and then Steve again whenever he decided to stay ‘in the past’. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/820 "2021-04-27T18:47:44Z")
The “ice cream” is Rocket. The “dead?” exchange is between Natasha and Rhodes. His mother tells him to eat a salad. So definitely one notable asshole, one guy who is used to trading lines with Tony (and usually coming off worse). His mother’s line comes after she’s spent a few minutes talking with/consoling/supporting him, as a kind of “now try to improve yourself and dig out of this hole you’re in” joke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981.md?page=42)