# Avengers: Endgame SEEN IT thread - SPOILERS AHOY! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [April 24, 2019, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981 "2019-04-24T08:50:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/901 "2021-04-30T05:31:13Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > In the moment, in the theater, after Marvel had been playing with my emotions for two hours, I was all in for that shot. The logical & cynical parts of my brain were very much overruled by the part that was beyond thrilled to see girl\* superheroes. I like that take. One can debate the cohesion and necessity of the scene, but both for the little girl watching and seeing role models in kickass mode, and for the little boy getting shown that girls can be heroes just as much as boys can, this may be an important bit of cultural input data shaping their overall worldview. Of course, it’s a bit of corporate sham diversity—we should not imagine Marvel to actually care about these issues, but the fact that they consider it profitable to front it is itself a bit of a cause for hope. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/902 "2021-04-30T12:37:59Z")
I noted that too. Not that there may not be side effects, messing with time can be tricky. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/903 "2021-04-30T17:08:02Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > In the moment, in the theater, after Marvel had been playing with my emotions for two hours, I was all in for that shot. The logical & cynical parts of my brain were very much overruled by the part that was beyond thrilled to see girl\* superheroes. After the fact, I can have a much more nuanced conversation about whether it made any narrative sense and/or how Marvel has handled gender issues in front of and behind the camera - but at the time, I was just cheering. The executive producer and one of the writers for The Boys, Rebecca Sonnenshine, was so annoyed by that scene that she wrote a deliberately satirical and rather more visceral and internally more logical version for her own show. However as a writer and producer herself she’s probably a bit more analytical in the moment when consuming media like this. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/904 "2021-04-30T17:13:38Z")
The moment definitely took me out of the film. I stopped watching a giant superhero fight scene and started instead wondering about the real-life decisions and politics that went into what I was watching. That wasn’t a conscious choice, it just knocked me out of the film. Buuuutttt… it didn’t ruin the movie for me and if it made some other people feel happy and perhaps validated then it’s a net benefit. I didn’t go home and kick rocks but maybe someone else went home and felt awesome. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/905 "2021-04-30T17:15:03Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Buuuutttt… it didn’t ruin the movie for me and if it made some other people feel happy and perhaps validated then it’s a net benefit. I didn’t go home and kick rocks but maybe someone else went home and felt awesome. I agree. I just feel like there fairly easily could have been a scene which had those same upsides but not the downsides. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/906 "2021-04-30T17:18:21Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > we should not imagine Marvel to actually care about these issues, but the fact that they consider it profitable to front it is itself a bit of a cause for hope. I think you may be going a bit too far into cynicism here. The MCU movies are largely overseen by one person, Kevin Feige, not some faceless room full of evil cigar smokers. If you attached him to a lie detector and asked him “is it important to you that MCU movies show a wide diversity of heroes of different races and sexes… and is that important in and of itself, not just because you think it might make them more profitable” I bet he would answer yes, and the lie detector would not say he was lying. That doesn’t mean that he cares about that above anything else, or cares about it as much as others might want him to, or cares about it the same way others might want him to… but I don’t think it’s just all a corporate performance. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/907 "2021-04-30T17:24:57Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I stopped watching a giant superhero fight scene and started instead wondering about the real-life decisions and politics that went into what I was watching. That wasn’t a conscious choice, it just knocked me out of the film. I didn’t really even notice, even though I had been informed that I should. What I _did_ notice was when Giant-Man was on the field, while Scott Lang was in the van. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/908 "2021-04-30T17:27:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I didn’t really even notice I’m sure it wasn’t a universal “failure” in terms of breaking people’s immersion. Can only speak for myself there. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/909 "2021-04-30T18:04:19Z")
Maybe they can work that in… “Hey wait…if you’re here, who TF is that guy?? And…freeze, enhance…who are these two guys over here???” Turns out when the call to battle came…some random assholes (and a skrull?) came running. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/910 "2021-04-30T18:13:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What I _did_ notice was when Giant-Man was on the field, while Scott Lang was in the van. I’ll admit, I did not notice that. I’m sure the actual explanation is simple continuity error in the editing and compositing of a chaotic scene with a huge cast, most of them portrayed by CGI. But here’s an off-hand fanwank: it’s Hank Pym. Was he otherwise accounted for at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/911 "2021-04-30T18:20:51Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > But here’s an off-hand fanwank: it’s Hank Pym. Was he otherwise accounted for at the time? If it is, the suit apparently has an [integrated](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/5/56/Ant-Man_punches_Leviathan.png/revision/latest?cb=20190828114518) [girdle](https://i2.wp.com/overmental.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/pym-particles-mcu.jpg?ssl=1). Maybe he can use it to shrink only his gut? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/912 "2021-04-30T18:36:23Z")
Well, I mean we don’t know for sure that using Pym Particles to grow to giant size doesn’t _also_ grant you a youthful, athletic physique… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/913 "2021-04-30T18:38:19Z")
They did use Pym particles to de-age Paul Rudd earlier in the film, so there’s precedent. ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/914 "2021-04-30T20:59:40Z")
I also did not notice until someone pointed it out afterwards. I definitely did not notice the giant-man thing, and now I will have to watch the movie again (not that I mind that much) ``` //i\\ ``` ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/915 "2021-04-30T21:28:47Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I mean, come on guys, they addressed that in the movie: > > > **CLINT BARTON:** Cap, what do you want me to do with this damn thing? > > > > **STEVE ROGERS:** Get those stones as far away as possible! > > > > **BRUCE BANNER:** No! We need to get them back where they came from. That makes no sense at all, they are putting the stones back using time travel. They can do it at literally any point and it makes zero difference. Steve was right, Bruce was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/916 "2021-04-30T21:31:27Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > That makes no sense at all, they are putting the stones back using time travel. They can do it at literally any point and it makes zero difference. Steve was right, Bruce was wrong. Well, unless they all die in battle. Regardless, whether it was a good idea or not, it’s pointless to ask why didn’t they do something if they specifically address it in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/917 "2021-04-30T21:55:17Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Regardless, whether it was a good idea or not, it’s pointless to ask why didn’t they do something if they specifically address it in the movie. But they didn’t address why, rather than listening to Rogers, a tactical genius and a recognized leader of the team, they listened to Banner, who is book smart, but has never formulated a battle plan more complicated than “SMASH.” Banner’s plan didn’t work out as he intended, and never really could have. It needed 10 minutes to warm up the van, which they didn’t have, and required that no one attack the van for that entire time. Danvers had the upper hand against Thanos _until_ he punched her with the power stone. Taking them off the field would have meant a difficult, but probable victory for the avengers. A second acceptable suggestion would be, “No, we need to use them to snap Thanos and his minions out of existence!” Banner or Thor could have done it and possibly survived. Anyone else could have done it and be remembered a hero. I’m just saying that Banner’s plan had no chance of success, and they would have or at should have known that. When he proposed this action, they didn’t even know the van was intact. If they had made it to the van, and it was not predictably blown up as the soft and obvious target that it was, what was the plan then? Wait around a bit while it was calibrated, then figure out who has Pym particles and the proper gear to use them? I suppose one other thing that disappointed me tactically was when Thanos’s ship started bombarding the battlefield, the wizards put up shields. I expected them to take a note from the beginning of Infinite War, and use the portals to return fire. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/918 "2021-04-30T22:03:54Z")
I mean, if you want them to sit them down and have a 30 minute planning session at the end of the movie, sure go ahead. I just hate movie discussions that are just “Why didn’t every character make the perfect decision in the heat of the moment?” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/919 "2021-04-30T22:16:57Z")
The sorcery portals are potentially story-breakingly powerful, if you think about it. Wong used a portal to cut off Cull Obsidian’s hand. Presumably that means that Doctor Strange could have used one to kill Thanos at any of a dozen times. Or if we fanwank that Thanos is too strong (with or without the stones) and would be able to resist, then they could have killed (or removed from the battlefield) every one of Thanos’s army. Hell, they could even have them falling continuously like Strange did to Loki. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981/920 "2021-04-30T22:57:15Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I just hate movie discussions that are just “Why didn’t every character make the perfect decision in the heat of the moment?” Right, but the taking them away plan is pretty easy. Either Danvers or any of the wizards can take them out of Thanos’s reach. The returning them to where they came from plan was far more convoluted, had very little chance of success, and wasn’t even known to be possible at all when proposed. It’s fine that they shouldn’t spend 30 minutes formulating a plan, but this plan required 10 minutes before it was even possible. It also involved bringing the Infinity Gauntlet across enemy lines, pretty much right next to Thanos. The snap Thanos and his minions out of existence plan was come up with on the fly by Stark. Anyone who had the Infinity Gauntlet could have ended it right there. Rogers may not always make perfect decisions, but he has a track record of making really good ones, even in the heat of the moment. They should have listened to him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avengers-endgame-seen-it-thread-spoilers-ahoy/832981.md?page=47)