# Avenue Q, Gary Coleman, and Fair Use **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978 "2011-08-08T19:15:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/21 "2011-08-10T08:15:20Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I wasn’t aware he died. ☹ [Yep…almost a year and a half ago.](http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20389492,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/22 "2011-08-10T12:53:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > So what happens if someone is paid for the “I waive all rights to sue” and then later sues anyway? Would it just get thrown out immediately? Not necessarily – you could argue that there was misrepresentation or perhaps that you were not mentally competent at the time of signing – but it makes it so much harder to win the suit that there’s little point in filing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/23 "2011-08-10T13:48:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > So what happens if someone is paid for the “I waive all rights to sue” and then later sues anyway? Would it just get thrown out immediately? It would be an affirmative defense, so it likely wouldn’t get “thrown out” immediately, but you would be likely to win much earlier than otherwise. What is even more likely is that the existence of such a contract will persuade the other party that it’s not worth it to go to court in the first place. A lot of contract practice is meant to discourage people from going to court in the first place. Just FYI, there are few things in a legal proceeding, especially a civil proceeding, that can be accurately described as being “thrown out immediately.” ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/24 "2011-08-10T21:52:00Z")
According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Coleman#Avenue_Q), Gary Coleman said that he _did_ want to sue the producers of _Avenue Q_, but that there wasn’t “a lawyer on Earth that would sue them for me.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/25 "2011-08-10T22:00:50Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > …(where it beat out Wicked, one of the major Tony upsets of all time),… Yes, and I hated them for it. Wanted to hate the show forever, but couldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/26 "2011-08-11T00:31:08Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Coleman#Avenue_Q), Gary Coleman said that he _did_ want to sue the producers of _Avenue Q_, but that there wasn’t “a lawyer on Earth that would sue them for me.” If he hadn’t already agreed to let them use him as a character he might not would have won a suit but could almost certainly have gotten a lawyer to sue them on a contingency once the show became a hit. His best bet, provided his health problems didn’t prevent it, would have been to launch a campaign to star as himself in the show; that could conceivably have relaunched his career and certainly would have given him a job for as long as the show ran. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/27 "2011-08-11T03:07:02Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The production transferred to Broadway in July 2003, where it won three Tony Awards, including Best Musical (where it beat out Wicked, one of the major Tony upsets of all time). I guess I’m in the minority. I _HATED_ “Wicked[sup]\*[/sup],” like Jews hate Hitler. With the sort of hatred I normally reserve for the Yankees or the New England Patriots. [sup]\*I have only seen clips of the musical. But I LOATHED the book. Obviously others’ mileage varied[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/28 "2011-08-11T03:46:27Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I guess I’m in the minority. I _HATED_ “Wicked[sup]\*[/sup],” like Jews hate Hitler. With the sort of hatred I normally reserve for the Yankees or the New England Patriots. > > [sup]\*I have only seen clips of the musical. But I LOATHED the book. Obviously others’ mileage varied[/sup] I like the musical okay- it’s not my favorite or in the top 10- but couldn’t finish the book without skipping through big chunks of it. The musical is a bit more tongue-in-cheek while the book took itself way too damned seriously for something that has talking goats. (In fairness I had the same problem with Narnia.) ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/29 "2011-08-11T04:13:04Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I guess I’m in the minority. I _HATED_ “Wicked[sup]\*[/sup],” like Jews hate Hitler. With the sort of hatred I normally reserve for the Yankees or the New England Patriots. > > [sup]\*I have only seen clips of the musical. But I LOATHED the book. Obviously others’ mileage varied[/sup] It is the only book I ever finished out of spite. I paid good money for it, and I was going to not finish it no matter how awful. But yeah it is the least enjoyable thing I’ve ever read, and I’ve gotten through practically all of the Wheel of Time. On the other hand the musical is fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/30 "2011-08-11T12:39:11Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I guess I’m in the minority. I _HATED_ “Wicked[sup]\*[/sup],” like Jews hate Hitler. With the sort of hatred I normally reserve for the Yankees or the New England Patriots. > > [sup]\*I have only seen clips of the musical. But I LOATHED the book. Obviously others’ mileage varied[/sup] Actually - I hated the book of Wicked as well. I’d previously tried another Maguire book (a retelling of Cinderella, I think) and found it tough going, and got at best a quarter of the way through. I got Wicked from the library - and gave up halfway through. I asked folks on a book-oriented mailing list and the general consensus was “hated book, loved play”. So anyway - if you were ever in a position to feel like you had to sit through the play, it wouldn’t be nearly as bad as you anticipate and you might even enjoy it. Is it as memorable as Avenue Q? Nope… the songs that have been running through my head are NOT the ones from Wicked which I saw on Sunday… they’re the ones from Avenue Q (or The Addams Family, which I also saw last weekend). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/31 "2011-08-11T13:14:23Z")
Didn’t hate **Wicked** , but **Avenue Q** was the better musical. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/32 "2011-08-12T13:23:55Z")
My own opinion is that both Wicked and Avenue Q were great musicals, but AQ was the more imaginative one. Wicked was pretty much a standard musical done extremely well; Avenue Q was unique to the Qth degree! ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/33 "2011-08-15T08:31:54Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I guess I’m in the minority. I _HATED_ “Wicked[sup]\*[/sup],” like Jews hate Hitler. With the sort of hatred I normally reserve for the Yankees or the New England Patriots. > > [sup]\*I have only seen clips of the musical. But I LOATHED the book. Obviously others’ mileage varied[/sup] Wicked is sorely overraed. People who LOVE Wicked seem to be a bit off. They tend to really obsess over it. Like it’s like you either love it or hate it. I wonder if they cut out the bits where he (Coleman) says he’s waiting to glide into death. Well, at least he’s not waiting any more. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/34 "2011-08-15T09:05:42Z")
Well after some digging I found about [Midler vs Ford Motor](http://www.markroesler.com/pdf/caselaw/Midler%20v.%20Ford%20Motor%201988.pdf). In it Bette Midler sued Ford for releasing a commercial featuring an imitator of Midler singing. The court concluded that by using an imitator of Midler instead of Midler herself, it appropiated her identity and thus cost her income–the personality law mentioned upthread. Before Coleman signed off, he would have a decent case that the Avenue Q character appropriated enough of his identity to cost him work. When he signed off he approved the use of his identity and made it far harder to sue. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/35 "2011-08-15T12:52:09Z")
That’s an advertisement. Completely different situation – you cannot imply that someone endorses a product when they have not. Carlos Santana did the same thing for a beer commercial with a guitar solo that sounded like him. But a work of fiction has the First Amendment on its side (advertisements are not protected speech). They can use the name and likeness of a public figure without permission. Again, look at **Red, White and Maddox** or, for that matter, **MacBird** , which accused the sitting president of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/36 "2011-08-15T13:25:42Z")
Wicked did bring a lot of young people into the theatre, for which any musical should be praised. Even Rent! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/37 "2011-08-15T19:24:14Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Wicked did bring a lot of young people into the theatre, for which any musical should be praised. Even Rent! A WAG, but I’m pretty sure Avenue Q did too. So kudos all around! ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978/38 "2011-08-16T00:36:30Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > A WAG, but I’m pretty sure Avenue Q did too. So kudos all around! I’ve seen both in NYC. (I think Ave was off Broadway, but can’t remember…) I didn’t see one person I’d call old at Avenue Q, but Wicked had a shit load of geezers . Admitly, I saw Wicked late in it’s run and only went because it was a friend’s birthday gift. It sucked so bad I faked being sick and left early. Wicked seemed to do well with woman. I saw a lot of men at Avenue Q. Not because I liked it better, but I do think Avenue deserved the Tony. It was a lot more original. Wicked is a lot like typical musicials… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avenue-q-gary-coleman-and-fair-use/591978.md?page=1)