# "Average Joe": Would they have the guts to reverse the sexes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405 "2003-11-21T00:54:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/21 "2003-11-22T01:07:52Z")
Posted by **astro:** > [@](#): > > A beautiful woman choosing amoung average schlubs is seen as amusing, and the rejected men will go on their way, little the worse for wear. To flip this around, and have one extraordinarily handsome man chose among several average looking women, would be emotionally devastating, and an order of magnitude more humilating for the rejected women than for a man, who is used to having his overtures rejected. Women stripped of their power to choose become little more than harem girls waiting for the Pasha to choose them for the evening. Jeez, do you **really** believe all that? Trust me, the rejected schlub does **not** go on his way “little the worse for wear”! Not in real life, anyway. And just what is it that makes women so much vulnerable than men are to this kind of humiliation? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/22 "2003-11-22T02:27:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Blue Sky \* > \*\*FOX might. FOX would try nearly anything. \*\* Homer:Now, son, they put on a lot of quality programming. (pause) (pause) Ha, ha, ha!!! Bart: Yeah, right, Dad! ---
**Author:** ![Skwerl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Skwerl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skwerl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/23 "2003-11-22T02:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Headcoat \* > \*\*I always wonder why people assume ugly people have better personalities than attractive people. In my experience, the homelier specimens of either gender had far worse personalities, wit, hygiene, style and intellect on average than those with good looks. > \*\* I think your explanation is correct, also. I’ll go further and say that the reason people make the assumption is based on Sour Grapes. “Sure, I don’t look like a model…but that’s okay, cuz if I did, I’d be dumb, superficial, mean, and snobby, and not deep and interesting, like us homely people tend to be! Now I feel better about myself.” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/24 "2003-11-22T03:06:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > \*\*Posted by **astro:** > > Jeez, do you **really** believe all that? Trust me, the rejected schlub does **not** go on his way “little the worse for wear”! Not in real life, anyway. And just what is it that makes women so much vulnerable than men are to this kind of humiliation? \*\* I do think most (not all) men would be comparatively less invested overall in their physical attractiveness, and the notion of being rejected by a beautiful woman would be seen as something of a lark, as men are a lot more used to taking a shot and being rebuffed, especially in the context of a television show dedicated to winnowing a field of suitors. I really do think (perhaps erroneously) that a field of average looking women, being directly and explicitly judged as unattractive of undesirable by a handsome man, would yield a far more stressed and angry emotional reaction from them, than from men receiving the same treatment. It would not make for good TV and would probably anger most female viewers. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/25 "2003-11-22T12:19:48Z")
There is a difference between average looking and ugly/homely. I think the average joe guys are a little of both. There were some homely guys and there were some “good enough for all normal purposes” looking guys. In fact – and I’ve not been paying much attention, but two of the finalists are nice average looking guys – the mildly geeky one with the beard and glasses and the tall balding “stabler from law and order:svu” looking guy are not homely, just average, but nice looking. The other guy, who does seem to have a really nice personality is just physically homely. He’s dumpy, has skin problems, unattractive features in an uappealing combination, but he seems to be a really nice guy – we’ll see now that the hunks have been deployed. In terms of turning it around, I think a show with nice, average looking women, would be interesting to watch. I think a guy as attractive as this girl – who, IMO isn’t all that – would have just as hard a time trying to not look like a superficial jerk as she is. I would like to see them couter her on AJ with an average, but still attractive girl with a great personality and let them have dates and see which one the AJ’s pick. Well, I’m not thinking with great clarity, so I’ll leave now. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Interior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@Lux\_Interior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Interior)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/26 "2003-11-22T13:44:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Hey, just take an attractive women and put glassess on her. That = unattractive, doesn’t it? You need to put her hair in a pony tail, too. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/27 "2003-11-22T19:59:04Z")
**I always wonder why people assume ugly people have better personalities than attractive people.** I think most of the time they do. If you are the class fat girl, you had damn well better be able to compensate for it – so you develop a sense of humor, learn new things, polish your personality, etc. I honestly cannot name one girl in my graduating class that was considered “hot” that had anything going for her in the personality department. They didn’t HAVE to have a personality, they got approval by looking pretty and smiling. I always felt sorry for people like that – what do Homecoming Queens do when they wake up one morning, they’re old and wrinkled and suddenly nobody’s beating a path to their door? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/28 "2003-11-23T01:09:12Z")
Glasses… pony tail… Bailey Quarters… :: breaks into sweat :: IMHO, glasses and a ponytail are a hell of a lot more attractive than some of the heavily-makeuped superficialities some women are suckered into these days… ---
**Author:** ![Skwerl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Skwerl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skwerl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/29 "2003-11-23T04:28:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\ ***I always wonder why people assume ugly people have better personalities than attractive people.** > > I think most of the time they do. > > If you are the class fat girl, you had damn well better be able to compensate for it – so you develop a sense of humor, learn new things, polish your personality, etc. I honestly cannot name one girl in my graduating class that was considered “hot” that had anything going for her in the personality department. They didn’t HAVE to have a personality, they got approval by looking pretty and smiling. > > I always felt sorry for people like that – what do Homecoming Queens do when they wake up one morning, they’re old and wrinkled and suddenly nobody’s beating a path to their door? \*\* In my high school, some of the biggest bi-atches were the ones that most people considered unattractive. Sure, there were some bitchy hotties, but I wouldn’t say the ratio was terrible skewed. I knew several lookers who were in advanced classes, participated in a lot of activities (aka well-rounded) and were generally well liked (except, I suppose, by the jealous types). But that was in my school, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/30 "2003-11-23T11:49:22Z")
There’s lots of smart and nice attractive people, and there’s lots of ignorant and mean unattractive people. But in this context, the point is that the average looking women would **have to be** interesting and smart and nice in order to gain the favor of the suitor. The “hot chick” certainly _could be_ interesting and smart and nice but she can go far gaining a lot of favor without it. Although some ugly people may criticize the “beautiful” simply out of spite and jealousy, I think there are plenty of instances that show that attractive people _can_ breeze through _certain_ aspects of life simply by the benefit of their looks. No matter how many “horizon-broadening experiences” they may gain, it still stands that that which comes easily seldom builds much character. If they did have an _Average Josephine_ show logic suggests that all of the women would have to have some great personality traits to offer. But, given the nature of reality T.V., it wouldn’t surprise me if they cast a bunch of mean, spiteful, jealous, bitter ol’ bitches who’ll spend the entire series talking trash about each other and getting into fights. . ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/31 "2003-11-23T22:29:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > **How could they convince the viewers that such a guy could envision happiness with such a woman?** Two words: [_Shallow Hal_](http://home.netcom.com/~rogermw/ShallowHal.html). ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/32 "2003-11-24T02:14:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*Would never happen in a million years, and if it did the protests would be deafening. […] Women stripped of their power to choose become little more than harem girls waiting for the Pasha to choose them for the evening. \*\* I guess that’s why nobody ever watches _The Bachelor_, eh? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/33 "2003-11-24T02:34:17Z")
_The Man Show_ did a skit on a treatment for married men to help them stop ogling at other women. They’d get taken to this town that was populated by nothing but ugly women. Now when I say ugly, I’m not trying to be shallow here- some of these women made me jump out of my seat in shock. It being a skit, these women were hired to appear, and knew perfectly well what their role was. So obviously they are not afraid to put ugly women on television, if that’s what this is about. And to say that an ugly woman getting rejected by an attractive man is so much more devastating than vice versa is a rather sexist remark. People are people, and people’s reactions aren’t solely based on gender. And from my experience, a person’s personality isn’t always directlly associated with their appearance. I can honestly say that I’ve had the displeasure to encounter women whose personalities were just as repulsive as their appearance :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/34 "2003-11-24T02:39:10Z")
Oh, and if anyone needs ideas for a list of contestants for a potential “Average Jane” show proposed, check out > **[Chaturbate - Free Adult Live Webcams!](https://www.uglypeople.com/)** > > Enjoy free chat and live webcam broadcasts from amateurs around the world. No registration required! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/35 "2003-11-24T03:06:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Incubus \* > \*\*_The Man Show_ > > So obviously they are not afraid to put ugly women on television, if that’s what this is about. And to say that an ugly woman getting rejected by an attractive man is so much more devastating than vice versa is a rather sexist remark. People are people, and people’s reactions aren’t solely based on gender. > \*\* Male and female sexual interaction contexts are quite different, and I don’t think acknowledging that fact is particularly “sexist”. For better or worse, men are socially and experientally conditioned to take direct rebuffs in stride, and load less of their self worth into their physical appearance. Directly telling an average looking young women she is being rejected because you do not consider her attractive enough will, IMO, hit her harder because society, fairly or unfairly, loads more of a women’s self worth into her appearance and physical beauty. This tendency may not be true for some women and may well be more true for some men, but overall being told you are not physically attractive will (again IMO) tend to hit young women significantly harder than young men. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/36 "2003-11-24T03:56:18Z")
Think they’ll ever do a gay version? Or have they already and I mised it? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/37 "2003-11-24T05:41:08Z")
If they reversed the sexes, I think it would be at least as unsettling to the hot chick when she suddenly became male as it was to the average schlubs when they …what?? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/38 "2003-11-24T08:47:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*Think they’ll ever do a gay version? > > Or have they already and I mised it? \*\* [Boy Meets Boy](http://www.bravotv.com/Boy_Meets_Boy/) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/39 "2003-11-24T08:53:30Z")
Joe Millionaire was indeed full of ugly women. In an interview after the finale aired, “Joe” admitted that none of the women were in his league, and that when he first saw them he wanted to turn his horse around and gallop away. It was a ratings bonanza. ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405/40 "2003-11-24T16:01:33Z")
If you made the guy likeable enough, you’d have a pretty great female audience for an ‘Average Jane’ show. All the housewives who wished for a better husband could put themselves in 'Jane’s" place and swoon over the perfect guy. I think it would do well. Just don’t expect men to care. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/average-joe-would-they-have-the-guts-to-reverse-the-sexes/214405.md?page=3)