# AVIS refuses to accept Israeli documents for rental. Lawsuit? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 22, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306 "2015-11-22T21:47:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/21 "2015-11-23T15:48:31Z")
> [@Loopus](#): > > The Civil Rights Act of 1964 disallows discrimination on the basis of, among other things, “national origin.” Does that include discriminating against foreign visitors on the basis of where they came from? I wonder if there’s a legal difference between discriminating between someone because of their national origin as opposed to basically hassling them on whether or not a driver license is valid. If the renter believes that he was treated differently simply because he’s from Israel, then sure, sounds like he has a great case, even if the validity of his license was just a pretext to deny him from renting a car. On the other hand, I’m not so sure that rejecting a government document due to questions about its validity is necessarily an act of discrimination. Sure, it is wrong, because the law is clearly on the renter’s side in this case – Israeli licenses are as good as any other – but that doesn’t mean he was the victim of discrimination. Take, for example, a young driver who travels to New York in his own car. Surely we can agree that New York State Police are not allowed to arbitrarily discriminate against people from, say, South Dakota just on the basis of the person being from that state. But South Dakota can issue driver licenses to kids as young at 14. New York does not have to accept that the 14 year old South Dakotan has a driver license that is valid in New York. Furthermore, if police prevented him from driving, that doesn’t necessarily make it a case of discrimination against South Dakotans. I think there’s a rough analogy to the case of questioning Israeli driver licenses, even though it is totally clear that the rental agency was totally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/22 "2015-11-23T17:18:52Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If you read the article, it implies that the Israeli driver’s license in question was not in English and did not have the International Driving Permit with it that translates it. If true, I could understand a clerk’s reluctance. I’d bet you that’s the issue. I can easily see myself as a rental car clerk, and some guy coming in and giving me documents printed in Cyrillic or Hebrew or some other script and language, and claiming that it’s a drivers licence, and me saying “Sorry, but you have to show me a drivers license that I can read before I’ll accept it.” I’d also be willing to bet that the “we don’t take Israeli documents” was either misquoted or a bad choice of words- probably something that was meant to be “We don’t take documents printed in Hebrew.” ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/23 "2015-11-23T17:53:50Z")
The man had an Avis “Wizard” card. So, it’s obvious to me that he had no problem renting from Avis before and had the proper documentation with him. I can see a rental company refusing to rent to someone who only presented a non USA driver’s license. But that would have to apply to DLs from ALL non-USA countries. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/24 "2015-11-23T19:41:03Z")
I don’t know. I get the feeling that there’s more to the story than we get from the Observer story. For one thing, Avis most certainly does not have any anti-Israeli policies, and in fact has at least one branch in Tel Aviv. For another, the story seems a bit slanted. From the story: > [@](#): > > The Observer asked Mr. Bergwerk if he felt that, in the heart of Manhattan’s progressive activist community, he was being singled out for being an Israeli. The Upper West Side may or may not be the “heart of Manhattan’s progressive activist community” (I would have thought the heart of New York’s “progressive, activist” community was Park Slope), but it has long been the heart of New York’s Jewish community. It seems like an unlikely place to encounter anti-Israel feeling. The story quotes Avis as saying: > [@](#): > > “On Friday, a customer seeking to rent a car from Avis Car Rental in Manhattan was not allowed to do so because he failed to provide the required documentation. Visitors to the U.S. from other countries must provide both a valid drivers license from their country of residence as well as either a valid International Drivers License or passport in order to rent from Avis. We are aggressively investigating the customer’s allegations regarding the handling of this matter, as we do not tolerate any form of discrimination. So far, our ongoing investigation suggests that this customer is unfairly maligning us with unfounded allegations.” If I had to guess, I’d guess that someone showed up at Avis with an expired license or something (as someone pointed out below, maybe it was in Hebrew and unrecognizable as a license to the clerk), and tried to bluster his way through it, hoping that if he was aggressive enough with the clerk, she’d give in and rent him a car. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/25 "2015-11-23T20:17:13Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > If I had to guess, I’d guess that someone showed up at Avis with an expired license or something (as someone pointed out below, maybe it was in Hebrew and unrecognizable as a license to the clerk), and tried to bluster his way through it, hoping that if he was aggressive enough with the clerk, she’d give in and rent him a car. [Here](http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/government-services/drivers-license-cars/converting-foreign-drivers-license/) is an image of an Israeli driver’s license. Since it says, in English, “Driving Licence / State of Israel” at the top, in English, I don’t agree that your speculation (or more accurately, your adoption of someone else’s speculation) is likely to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/26 "2015-11-23T20:27:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Here](http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/government-services/drivers-license-cars/converting-foreign-drivers-license/) is an image of an Israeli driver’s license. > > Since it says, in English, “Driving Licence / State of Israel” at the top, in English, I don’t agree that your speculation (or more accurately, your adoption of someone else’s speculation) is likely to be the case. Then maybe it was expired. Who knows. I’m just saying that, as presented, the allegation that Mr. Bergwerk and his wife encountered an Avis branch (on the Upper West Side!) with anti-Israeli policies seems unlikely, especially since Avis corporate seems to be backing up its employees. Now, it may be that more facts emerge. But given that all I’ve seen is this story, it doesn’t ring true to me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/27 "2015-11-23T21:16:07Z")
Is there a better source for this story than the _NY Observer_? > [@Bricker](#): > > [Here](http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/government-services/drivers-license-cars/converting-foreign-drivers-license/) is an image of an Israeli driver’s license. > > Since it says, in English, “Driving Licence / State of Israel” at the top, in English, I don’t agree that your speculation (or more accurately, your adoption of someone else’s speculation) is likely to be the case. That is the current license design. He may have had an older version. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/28 "2015-11-23T21:23:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is there a better source for this story than the _NY Observer_? > > That is the current license design. He may have had an older version. I Googled, and came up with the same story, slightly reworded, or two other kinds of sites: (1) Racist sites that focused on the fact that the Avis manager at the branch is black and/or somehow managed to make this about Obama; (2) Jewish sites that insist that this is evidence of an anti-Israel policy on the part of Avis. Neither of those seems worth taking seriously. I’m betting this is a case of an angry customer without proper documentation (hey, I’ve rented cars overseas many times, and the rental companies _always_ want more than just a license) who got angry when he couldn’t rent a car. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/29 "2015-11-23T23:20:39Z")
I’m not sure if I missed something. In the article, it appears he did not present the required 2nd piece of ID (passport or international driver’s license.) If this is the case, it doesn’t really matter if he rented there before-- presumably he either had the required ID then, or he had a clerk that was willing to bend the rules. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/30 "2015-11-24T00:32:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Take, for example, a young driver who travels to New York in his own car. Surely we can agree that New York State Police are not allowed to arbitrarily discriminate against people from, say, South Dakota just on the basis of the person being from that state. But South Dakota can issue driver licenses to kids as young at 14. New York does not have to accept that the 14 year old South Dakotan has a driver license that is valid in New York. Furthermore, if police prevented him from driving, that doesn’t necessarily make it a case of discrimination against South Dakotans. And in fact, according to [the NYS Dept of Motor Vehicles](http://nysdmv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/19/related/1/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xNDQ4MzE4NzIzL3NpZC8ybVMxb2ZDbQ%3D%3D) > [@](#): > > You cannot drive in NYS if you are less than 16 years old. A learner permit or a driver license from another state does not exempt you from this rule. . You can’t even drive with a junior license issued by NYS in the five boroughs of NYC. Now I’m sure that Mr. Bergwerk is over 16, so that’s not specifically the issue. And the manager certainly shouldn’t have changed the story when speaking to corporate (if she did) But it’s possible that there was some issue other than the fact that it was an Israeli license. I’m looking at the image of an Israeli license, and sure enough, it says “Driving License” in English at the top. But there’s other information I have to assume ( such as that 21.12.1957 is the birthdate and that 1.5.2014 is the expiration date) and still other stuff I have no idea about. Does Israel issue different classes of license? If so, what are the classes? Is this license valid to drive a car or is it only valid for a motorcycle? etc. I also noticed that according to Avis’s statement either an International Driving Permit or a passport must be presented with a foreign license. But Mr Bergwerk’s account does not actually mention him providing his passport. He says he provided his “driver’s license, reservation number and “Wizard” loyalty card” , he says that corporate said he could “show his passport to ameliorate any ID concerns the on-site employees had.” but it never actually says he provided the passport, or that the employee refused to look at his passport. You would think if either of those happened it would have made it into the story.I’m with Saintly Loser - I think he didn’t provide the proper documents and then got angry. And it’s entirely possible that corporate told the manager that she could rent to him without seeing the passport or IDL ( because he was a"Wizard" or whatever , but she still refused because of how he treated the employees. ``` After I finished writing the above, I found the following, new statement on the the Avis Facebook page- ``` > [@](#): > > We have investigated the denial of a rental that recently occurred in Manhattan. We have found that we have been inconsistent in applying our policies with respect to documentation requirements with this customer, who has rented from us in the past without providing a second form of identification. We are committed to providing an outstanding car rental experience to our customers and believe that we should have done better here. We have spoken with the customer and apologized for the misunderstanding that occurred as a result of this inconsistency in applying our documentation policy, and the customer has accepted our apology. Which pretty much can explain everything. It would explain why they would’t rent him the car, and also why he might have gotten upset enough at the “rules changing” to treat the employees poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/31 "2015-11-24T02:05:19Z")
Basically, “We apologize profusely for letting you break our rules in the past, and for not allowing you to take this previous mistake on our part as a free pass you could exploit without any further incident.” ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/32 "2015-11-24T02:32:47Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I’m not sure if I missed something. In the article, it appears he did not present the required 2nd piece of ID (passport or international driver’s license.) If this is the case, it doesn’t really matter if he rented there before-- presumably he either had the required ID then, or he had a clerk that was willing to bend the rules. But don’t you understand!!?? They were STRANDED in Manhattan, _stranded_. Because of the lack of a car. In Manhattan. I mean, how could they _possibly_ use Metro-North like the plebs or hire some sort of _shudder_ taxi service. Their trauma is truly unimaginable. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/33 "2015-11-24T02:59:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Here](http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/government-services/drivers-license-cars/converting-foreign-drivers-license/) is an image of an Israeli driver’s license. > > Since it says, in English, “Driving Licence / State of Israel” at the top, in English, I don’t agree that your speculation (or more accurately, your adoption of someone else’s speculation) is likely to be the case. That’s sort of my point. As a clerk, I could assume that 4a is the date of issuance and 4b is the expiration date, but I’m not entirely sure. I’m also not sure what the stuff at the bottom means. Maybe it says “Restricted for DUI/Interlock use only.” Again, I’m not sure. Being a good employee I start flipping through the handbook to see what to do in this situation. Aha! It says I should ask for a passport or an International Driving Permit. If I don’t ask for the passport or the IDP and the guy ends up having a suspended license and wrecks the car, I lose my job. So I ask for one and the guy acts like a self-entitled ass. Then I am accused of racism in the national press. All for doing what I am supposed to do. ETA: How did he get to a US airport from Israel without a passport? He probably had one but was acting like a major douche by not presenting it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/34 "2015-11-24T03:11:35Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > We don’t have \*taxes \*in Cayman. We have fees, duties, and any other euphemism they can think of. Requiring tourists to purchase a local temporary driver’s permit is just a [del]tax[/del] fee. It is lieu of many of the [del]taxes[/del] fees you might more typically see on a car rental contract in a tourist destination. I noticed that. 🙂 I saw where I needed a Cayman Islands Drivers License and I’m thinking I’m going to have to do the whole written and driving test like when I was sixteen. It is just an add-on fee at the rental agency; no card or anything. But after a day of driving on the left side of the road and nearly killing myself and several others (you think it’s easy? Make a left turn from a multi-lane road onto a multi-lane road and resist the urge to stay right 🙂 ) I think there actually should be the requirement of a brief test. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/35 "2015-11-24T03:21:06Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > (1) Racist sites that focused on the fact that the Avis manager at the branch is black and/or somehow managed to make this about Obama; That man gets everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/36 "2015-11-24T03:30:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is there a better source for this story than the _NY Observer_? > > That is the current license design. He may have had an older version. From the year 2006: > [@](#): > > Good news for Israelis headed to the United States: The new Israeli driver’s license issued Tuesday will be valid for private vehicles in all US states, and an international license will no longer be needed. > > Gideon Siterman, director-general of the Ministry of Transport, explained Tuesday that the new license will be titled “Driving License” as oppose to “Driving Permit.” Israeli driving licenses have so far been issued under the title “Driving Permit,” and US authorities would not acknowledge the documentation because of it being a permit, not a license. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/37 "2015-11-24T03:49:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > From the year 2006: That’s the rule for being on the road. I assume that private companies can make their own rules before handing you an item worth tens of thousands of dollars. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/38 "2015-11-24T04:10:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Here](http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/government-services/drivers-license-cars/converting-foreign-drivers-license/) is an image of an Israeli driver’s license. > > Since it says, in English, “Driving Licence / State of Israel” at the top, in English, I don’t agree that your speculation (or more accurately, your adoption of someone else’s speculation) is likely to be the case. That’s not helping- I don’t know, as a non-Hebrew speaker, if the person’s name is “Israeli Avraham” or “Rivka Israela”, for example. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/39 "2015-11-24T04:57:57Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > If I had to guess, I’d guess that someone showed up at Avis with an expired license or something (as someone pointed out below, maybe it was in Hebrew and unrecognizable as a license to the clerk), and tried to bluster his way through it, hoping that if he was aggressive enough with the clerk, she’d give in and rent him a car. Probably what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306/40 "2015-11-24T05:03:30Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Probably what happened. Or maybe the months and day were reversed from the U.S. Standard order and the clerk thought it was expired when it actually wasn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avis-refuses-to-accept-israeli-documents-for-rental-lawsuit/738306.md?page=3)