# Avril Lavigne Therapy Session **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073 "2003-05-09T08:22:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/21 "2003-05-11T04:21:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\*What gets me about Avril Lavigne is when she calls herself a punk. Yeah, that necktie just screams “anarchy”. Maybe one night, young Avril will be visited by the ghosts of Nancy Spungeon, Wendy O. Williams, and Kristen Pfaff who will show her the True Spirit of Punk. \*\* Who (above the age of 15, that is) really gives a shit what is or isn’t “punk”? I mean, what’s next, complaining about the Machiavellian machinations of your high school yearbook committee? ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/22 "2003-05-11T04:51:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by japatlgt \* > \*\*One hit wonder trying to stir up controversy to generate interest. Sad really. \*\* No, what’s sad is your ignorant and incorrect statement about her being a one hit wonder. **Complicated** hit #2 on **Billboards Hot 100**. **Sk8er Boi** hit# 10 on the **Hot 100.** **I’m With You** hit #11 on the **Hot 100.** In addition, she has had 9 #1 hits on other **Billboard** charts. And that isn’t even getting into album sales. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/23 "2003-05-11T05:03:06Z")
I agree with the late Lester Bangs who both invented the term “punk rock” and later said “punk was”. It was a brief movement back in the 70’s. And yes, it definitely was as full of itself as the other musical genres it disparaged. That said, it’s Avril Lavigne and her publicity people who have placed the punk label upon her. So she desrves to carry the weight. ---
**Author:** ![typhoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed8c4c/32.png) [@typhoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typhoon)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/24 "2003-05-11T05:34:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Payton’s Servant \* > **No, what’s sad is your ignorant and incorrect statement about her being a one hit wonder.** Maybe you’re taking the term too literally. I think what folks mean when they label an act like Lavigne a “one-hit wonder” is that the musician’s career is fad-like and ephemeral and unlikely to be much more than a short blurb in the History of Rock Music. Record sales aren’t really important here; the Grateful Dead didn’t have any hits, but they’re likely to be remembered much longer than whatever artist happens to be on MTV right this second. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/25 "2003-05-11T10:15:48Z")
Avril Lavigne’s punk? I’ve only heard _Complicated_ and _I’m With You_ on the radio, so I assumed she was more folk than punk. Then again, I’m into folk, not punk, so I am biased. I also rather like both songs. _I’m With You_ describes the way I spent a lot of my life. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Dryga\_Yes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/26 "2003-05-11T10:40:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by teemingONE \* > \*\*I honestly don’t know what the term punk really means. I only know the definition given to me by the punk people I know. According to them someone punk is a person who doesn’t coform with the rest of society. \*\* Can you read [this](http://www.avril-lavigne.com/bio.php) and honestly say that she’s any more of a non-conformist than Britney Spears? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/27 "2003-05-11T11:02:29Z")
I just don’t know how George Bush can go after Saddam Hussein while Avril Lavigne is still free and unhinderd to perpetrate her particuarly inhumane brand of noise terrrorism on the nations ears. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/28 "2003-05-11T15:16:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Cermonies \* > \*\*I just don’t know how George Bush can go after Saddam Hussein while Avril Lavigne is still free and unhinderd to perpetrate her particuarly inhumane brand of noise terrrorism on the nations ears. \*\* She’s not brown and doesn’t have a menacing beard, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/29 "2003-05-11T15:44:43Z")
Leave Avril alone. She’s young and still controlled by a lot of older sucky people. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/30 "2003-05-11T16:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > \*\*Avril Lavigne’s punk? I’ve only heard _Complicated_ and _I’m With You_ on the radio, so I assumed she was more folk than punk. Then again, I’m into folk, not punk, so I am biased. I also rather like both songs. _I’m With You_ describes the way I spent a lot of my life. > > CJ \*\* More folk than punk is a good description. She says she’s punk, but she’s either lying or misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/31 "2003-05-11T16:21:21Z")
I don’t really care whether she is or isn’t “punk”. She plays guitar and writes her own songs and for that reason alone I respect her more than 99% of other teen pop stars. I also think “Complicated” was pretty good, as far as MTV pop goes. “Sk8ter Boi” though is a really nasty, catty piece of work and I expect (and hope) some day she’ll be embarrassed she ever sang it. ---
**Author:** ![shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/32 "2003-05-11T16:36:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by oldman\_withers \* > Students who primarily listen to older music are taking the easy way out as well. They think that if they listen to the music of their forefathers they will gain acceptance into a community much older and wiser than themselves. I absolutely agree. I’m much more prone to praise my students who listen to music that is neither popular with their peers nor me. When a student shows an interest in a type of music that they’ve genuinely discovered and decided to like without the known approval of others, I tend to praise that sort. Other than that, I stay out of their musical tastes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Harrison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5ac83/32.png) [@John\_Harrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Harrison)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/33 "2003-05-11T17:42:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > **I don’t really care whether she is or isn’t “punk”. She plays guitar and writes her own songs and for that reason alone I respect her more than 99% of other teen pop stars.** I think she means “lyric writer” when she says “song writer”, since her CD credits show that every song is co-written by multiple professional songwriters, and it’s not that difficult to bang out a few sentences that rhyme. And she plays the guitar on ONE song on her CD, and I haven’t seen her play the guitar during any performance on TV, but I suppose I could have missed one. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/34 "2003-05-11T17:48:06Z")
Well, you obviously know more about her than I do 😉 but even writing the lyrics is, IMHO, worthy of more respect than just singing any old crap your manager hands you. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/35 "2003-05-11T17:56:10Z")
The “Rolling Stone” cover story on Avril Lavigne includes an amusing portion wherein Lavigne and the professional songwriting team behind her differ wildly as to how much input Lavigne had in the songs. Lavigne, of course, says she wrote them with just a small amount of help. The pros say that Lavigne’s meager contributions amount to the occasional line or word change. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/36 "2003-05-11T18:11:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sivispacem \* > \*\*Her success has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that she’s really freaking hot. In fact no current trendy pop artist’s success is based in any way whatsoever on their looks. Especially not Avril’s. \*\* jeez i don’t find her remotely attractive. I don’t know what has happened to the word “punk” but I can’t imagine that she fits any definition. I only know that one tune “complicated” but that’s about as pop as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/37 "2003-05-11T18:44:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Typhoon wrote: > **Maybe you’re taking the term too literally. I think what folks mean when they label an act like Lavigne a “one-hit wonder” is that the musician’s career is fad-like and ephemeral and unlikely to be much more than a short blurb in the History of Rock Music. Record sales aren’t really important here; the Grateful Dead didn’t have any hits, but they’re likely to be remembered much longer than whatever artist happens to be on MTV right this second.** Well, by that definition pretty much everything is a “one hit wonder” - who’s going to remember any current music in, say, a hundred years? I guess the odds are that only the music nowadays considered as “classic” is going to last. One-hit wonder does refer to having one hit and then fading into obscurity. At the very least, this complaint will be countered once her second album rolls around. ---
**Author:** ![hebesphenomegacorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@hebesphenomegacorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hebesphenomegacorona)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/38 "2003-05-11T19:10:37Z")
Now, Avril Lavigne isn’t human. Avril Lavigne and the endless duplicates of each other(i.e.TaTu, Britney spears, Christina Aguilera, etc…) are killer insects that get eaten after they’re unpopular with the generation of idiots to fuel more killer insects. Look at them. Is there even a TINY difference between them? Eventually, these said insects(that look like bipedal metal scorpions) will begin eating the people who buy their albums. Your daily dose of stupid brought to you by me. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/39 "2003-05-11T21:27:43Z")
Christina Aguilera looks like something out of Dragon ball Z in her lastest video ‘stronger’ ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073/40 "2003-05-12T00:34:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > **[Punk] was a brief movement back in the 70’s. And yes, it definitely was as full of itself as the other musical genres it disparaged.** While I would agree that the punker-than-thoughs are full of themselves (along with some other stuff I won’t mention), punk definately outlasted the '70s in the same way that rock-n-roll outlasted the '50s. The Sex Pistols were ground breakers of, and not the apotheosis of, punk. I don’t listen to much new punk, but it is out there. I would suggest that **teemingONE** compare Minor Threat with Avril to see a sharp juxtaposition. Not a current band to be sure, but they are a band for whom punk cred will never be an issue. I really don’t understand the anti-Avril invective. Granted, she is either a sell-out or a poseur, but she broke out while still a kid and it seems that I can give her a chance to find her voice before I decide to hate her. Besides, she’s beautiful and a good pop singer which is worth something (even if I don’t like her music). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avril-lavigne-therapy-session/174073.md?page=3)