# Avuncular...for Aunts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 8, 2000, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552 "2000-08-08T12:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![the\_feral\_eye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/58f4c7/32.png) [@the\_feral\_eye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_feral_eye)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/1 "2000-08-08T12:40:32Z")
What is the equivalent adjective (i.e. avuncular for uncles) for aunts? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/2 "2000-08-08T13:13:54Z")
According to the 1961 Roget’s Thesaurus, there isn’t one. Under “Relative”, adjectives, “pertaining to a family member”: > [@](#): > > brotherly, fraternal; sisterly, sororal; filial; fatherly, paternal, motherly, maternal, parental, ancestral; nepotal (_nephew_), avuncular (_uncle_), novercal (_stepmother_) ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/3 "2000-08-08T13:17:28Z")
I think this might be another case of linguistic sexism. I don’t think there is an exact Latin-based equivalent of _avuncular_ for aunts. How about _auntly_ or _auntlike_? Hmm… Neither passed my spell checker. Let’s go back to Latin. My _American Heritage Dictionary_ says _avuncular_ comes from the Latin _avunculus_, meaning “maternal uncle.” How about _materteral_, from the Latin for “maternal aunt,” _matertera_? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/4 "2000-08-08T14:35:21Z")
Hey, I like **nepotal!** Is that where “nepotism” comes from? Hiring your nephew? Cool! ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/5 "2000-08-08T14:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > \*\*Hey, I like **nepotal!** Is that where “nepotism” comes from? Hiring your nephew? Cool! \*\* Yep. From Latin _nepos_, “nephew.” ---
**Author:** ![fierra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@fierra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fierra)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/6 "2000-08-08T17:11:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Teach \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > > \*\*Hey, I like **nepotal!** Is that where “nepotism” comes from? Hiring your nephew? Cool! \*\* > > Yep. From Latin _nepos_, “nephew.” > > \*\* nepos, nepotis means grandson, not nephew. ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/7 "2000-08-08T18:03:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fierra \* > \*\*nepos, nepotis means grandson, not nephew. \*\* Well, my dictionary says _nepotism_ comes from _nepos_, meaning “nephew” and this citation backs it up: > [@](#): > > \*from [http://lorenz.mur.csu.edu.au/~lbenton/trivia/nepotism](http://lorenz.mur.csu.edu.au/~lbenton/trivia/nepotism) \* > > The practice of nepotism is hardly innocent, and neither is the origin of the word, which comes from **nepos** , Latin for nephew. Nepotism was coined in the Middle Ages to describe the behavior of certain Popes and other high Church officials. > > In the modern age, the heads of the Church have usually been widely respected moral leaders, but back then some were corrupt. Their appointment of their “nephews” (a polite way of referring to their illegitimate children) to church offices was one of the practices that helped to bring on the Reformation. > > (Source: DICTIONARY OF WORD & PHRASE ORIGINS by W & M Morris) I don’t have the W & M Morris dictionary, but I see no reason to mistrust this source. ---
**Author:** ![fierra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@fierra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fierra)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/8 "2000-08-08T18:44:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Teach \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by fierra \* > > \*\*nepos, nepotis means grandson, not nephew. \*\* > > Well, my dictionary says _nepotism_ comes from _nepos_, meaning “nephew” and this citation backs it up: > > > [@](#): > > > > \*from [http://lorenz.mur.csu.edu.au/~lbenton/trivia/nepotism](http://lorenz.mur.csu.edu.au/~lbenton/trivia/nepotism) \* > > > > The practice of nepotism is hardly innocent, and neither is the origin of the word, which comes from **nepos** , Latin for nephew. Nepotism was coined in the Middle Ages to describe the behavior of certain Popes and other high Church officials. > > > > In the modern age, the heads of the Church have usually been widely respected moral leaders, but back then some were corrupt. Their appointment of their “nephews” (a polite way of referring to their illegitimate children) to church offices was one of the practices that helped to bring on the Reformation. > > > > (Source: DICTIONARY OF WORD & PHRASE ORIGINS by W & M Morris) > > I don’t have the W & M Morris dictionary, but I see no reason to mistrust this source. > \*\* I didn’t have my latin dictionary at work with me (I know, a shameful oversight), but did search my Latin web dictionaries before posting to confirm my memory. They all give nepos as grandson (& sometimes with extras added - see [http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-bin/aglimpse-latin/16/www/Lexis/Latin?query=nepos&case=on&whole=on&errors=0](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-bin/aglimpse-latin/16/www/Lexis/Latin?query=nepos&case=on&whole=on&errors=0) assuming the url post works this time!). The only reference I could find to it as nephew were in dictionary word origins where it was actually spelt differently - see: [http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=nepotism](http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=nepotism) where it puts nepus for nephew & then links to French. I did try a reverse lookup in the online resources of nepus & nephew, but got nothing (although the greek section of the perseus texts gave lots of links to texts with nephew in that didn’t help at all in the current context). number of cites 2:1, ignorance fought - probably zero, since the 2nd cite gives nepus as the root of nepotism. Want to send a joint email to the dictionaries to protest,Teach? ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/9 "2000-08-08T19:05:34Z")
fierra: I’m not sure if this calls for protest (yet), but it certainly begs further investigation. There seems to a conflict between the etymologies in the English dictionaries and the translations in the Latin-English dictionaries. I’m not a Latin scholar, but I have studied English linguistics for over a decade. I tend to side with the etymologists, but they may be wrong. Something to ponder tomorrow… bedtime for Teach in Osaka. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/10 "2000-08-08T21:40:40Z")
I think the problem comes from so many people’s insistence on going back to Latin. The **OED** traces it to the **Italian** _nepote_, nephew, from around 1653. The current Italian word has, I believe, had a vowel shift to become _nipote_. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/11 "2000-08-09T04:59:42Z")
My Latin-English dict. has four meanings for _nepos_: 1. grandson 2. nephew 3. descendant 4. spendthrift ---
**Author:** ![fierra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@fierra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fierra)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/12 "2000-08-09T09:40:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > \*\*My Latin-English dict. has four meanings for _nepos_: > > 1. grandson > 2. nephew > 3. descendant > 4. spendthrift \*\* 1. So Roman kids sponged off their parents/grandparents/any relative daft enough to stand still long enough too! Figures. The dictionary site that I gave the nepotism link for actually translates nephew as grandson, but lists it as an obsolete usage. It assigns nephew to mean sibling’s child to chaucer - I don’t know if that’s the first written example of it, or if that’s who actually first shifted it… [http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=Nephew](http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=Nephew) ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/avuncular-for-aunts/28552/13 "2000-08-09T12:03:42Z")
Use this word as the collective term for nieces and nephews: _niblings_.