# Aw, for the love o’ God . . . “National Day of Prayer and Fasting” **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376 "2003-03-26T21:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/1 "2003-03-26T21:31:05Z")
I don’t know why I’m not putting this in the Pit, but I thought we might get some kind of debate out if it. As for me, I am banging my head on my desk over and over till my eyes bleed. WASHINGTON (AP) - Harking back to the Revolutionary and Civil wars, the House is talking about a national day of humility, prayer and fasting to seek guidance from God during a time of war and terrorism. “It is a resolution that I think all of us can support with humility and grace and our love for our great nation,” Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Ill., said Wednesday. But several lawmakers were less sure. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, an opponent of the war in Iraq, said, “This resolution may be seen by some as an attempt to inject religion into this war at a time when some of America’s enemies abroad are asserting that this indeed is a war about religion.” Rep. Ted Strickland, D-Ohio, said he supported the resolution but was “a little troubled that we would presume to tell the American people what they should do to secure the blessings and protection of Providence.” But Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo., chief sponsor of the measure, said it has long been America’s way, “when we get into an armed conflict, to turn to God and to ask his support.” The resolution says Americans should use the day of prayer “to seek guidance from God to achieve a greater understanding of our own failings and to learn how we can do better in our everyday activities, and to gain resolve in meeting the challenges that confront our nation.” The Senate approved a similar resolution last week, stating that it was the sense of the Senate that March 17 should be a national day of prayer and fasting. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/2 "2003-03-26T21:47:14Z")
I dont know why you are so upset about this. They are asking all those who believe in prayer to do so for a particular cause. They are not mandating the US marshalls to shoot anyone who does not pray on March 17. Since its already the 26, its all rather moot …to boot. sorry its no big thang. All those who want to pray for somthing or rather, please do so. All those who dont…talk amongst yourselves. _amen_ ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/3 "2003-03-26T21:48:02Z")
In a related story, Rep. Napolean said “The constitution says it’s O.K. for animals to sleep in beds, as long as they don’t have sheets”. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/4 "2003-03-26T21:49:36Z")
Um, seperation of church and state. Now, I am not an American but surely this is unconstitutional? And deeply disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/5 "2003-03-26T21:51:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*I dont know why you are so upset about this. They are asking all those who believe in prayer to do so for a particular cause. They are not mandating the US marshalls to shoot anyone who does not pray on March 17. Since its already the 26, its all rather moot …to boot. sorry > > its no big thang. All those who want to pray for somthing or rather, please do so. All those who dont…talk amongst yourselves. > > _amen_ \*\* And of course, you would be equally nonchalant if we had a national “There is no God” day. After all, you don’t have to participate, right?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/6 "2003-03-26T21:53:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*March 17 should be a national day of prayer and fasting. \*\* Remind me to sell my corned beef and cabbage stock. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/7 "2003-03-26T21:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnwrittenNocturne \* > \*\*Um, seperation of church and state. Now, I am not an American but surely this is unconstitutional? And deeply disturbing. \*\* Not really. No more than Christmas. Doesn’t make it appropriate though. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/8 "2003-03-26T22:03:18Z")
What purpose does it serve? What is it supposed to accomplish for the country. It’s completely gratuitous and it’s a violation of the establishment clause. What a bunch of crap. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/9 "2003-03-26T22:05:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I dont know why you are so upset about this. They are asking all those who believe in prayer to do so for a particular cause. Well, that’s one way of putting it. Another could be that supposedly rational people are requesting that a day be set aside to request supernatural intervention on behalf of our side in a morally ambiguous war. Perhaps we could appoint a chief astrologer to divine the likelihood of victory, and sacrifice a few small animals, just so all bases are covered. I swear, our current administration is getting more bizarre by the day. Er, one question, though. Why the emphasis on fasting? ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/10 "2003-03-26T22:06:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > And of course, you would be equally nonchalant if we had a national “There is no God” day. After all, you don’t have to participate, right?:rolleyes: Nahh. Atheists wouldn’t even bother. It’d be like having a “Unicorns Don’t Exist Day”. But I bet some people would find a “National Day of Polyamory, Prayer, Sodomy, Fasting, and Hedonism” awfully funny. ---
**Author:** ![Rug\_Burn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a87d85/32.png) [@Rug\_Burn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rug_Burn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/11 "2003-03-26T22:07:52Z")
We’ll, if drinking beer is still considered fasting, I’m all for it…seeing how it’s St. Patrick’s Day and all. :rolleyes: Dumbass politicians could at least check their calendars. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/12 "2003-03-26T22:08:14Z")
Figures. We’ll probably get to watch on C-Span, too. They just don’t get it, do they? X-Slayer said, "I dont know why you are so upset about this. They are asking all those who believe in prayer to do so for a particular cause. They are not mandating the US marshalls to shoot anyone who does not pray on March 17. Since its already the 26, its all rather moot …to boot. sorry its no big thang. All those who want to pray for somthing or rather, please do so. All those who dont…talk amongst yourselves." They’re talking about making a RESOLUTION. They’re using government time and money to plan a fuckin’ prayer meeting. I’m stunned that you don’t see the problem here. HELLO! They have a church if they want to talk to god about siding with the US! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/13 "2003-03-26T22:11:32Z")
Not to mention the inherent exclusion of those who don’t pray. Maybe if they spent as much time on the peace process as they do praying, we wouldn’t have to ask god to pull our collective tit out of the ringer. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/14 "2003-03-26T22:13:48Z")
I misread the headline as a National Day of Prayer and Fisting… :eek: Which is somehow more appropriate given the state of the union today… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/15 "2003-03-26T22:25:52Z")
Aren’t National Days of Prayer and Fasting usually Presidential proclamations instead of Congressional ones? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/16 "2003-03-26T22:44:38Z")
Would somebody suggest to our esteemed Senators and Representatives that they’re not God, and their lawmaking power is limited to what the Constitution equips them to do (a heck of a lot, last time I looked)? I think a day set aside when believers can together petition their deity or deities in pursuit of a common cause is an excellent idea. I don’t think Congress is the appropriate body to call for one; I’m not sure there **is** an appropriate body (make a guess how many large denominations don’t participate in the National Council of Churches, and then add in all the non-Christian, non-Jewish groups and individuals). Fasting is usually seen as an act of self-discipline intended to focus the person doing it on the spiritual goal he’s set himself, JFTR. All that said, the text of the resolution as given in the last paragraph of the OP is one that’s by no means objectionable to me personally, though I think it’s inappropriate for the Congress to presume to call their non-monotheist\* constituents to such a prayer. - I suppose I should make an exception for polytheists who do recognize the existence of the Christian God, such as **Freyr**. I swear, I can write simply; it’s just that the issues that get discussed on this board mandate a plethora of subordinate clauses to maintain accuracy! Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/17 "2003-03-26T23:00:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > What purpose does it serve? What is it supposed to accomplish for the country. It’s completely gratuitous and it’s a violation of the establishment clause. What a bunch of crap. It serves to focus those professing faith in a greater power to dedicate one day a year to specific prayer on behalf of our nation. That you consider it gratuitous is hardly a valid point. As the NDP has been in effect both before and after Jefferson’s stint as president _and_ the SCOTUS misinterpretation of the intent of a phrase lifted from one of his personal letters, I’d have to say it does not in fact violate the establishment clause. It carries no weight of law, it cannot not enforced, it is not worthy of the hot air swirling around it. Oh, and if you’re really into this sort of thing, take a look at your governor’s proclamations. Even in Minnesota I’m sure you’d find some doozies! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/18 "2003-03-26T23:07:21Z")
Why do you need the government to order you to pray for your country? It’s gratuitous because it is an absolutely empty piece of legislation. It’s pure symbolism without a shred of substance. It’s also a violation of the establishment clause because it amounts to a government endorsement of theism. ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/19 "2003-03-26T23:17:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > Would somebody suggest to our esteemed Senators and Representatives that they’re not God, and their lawmaking power is limited to what the Constitution equips them to do (a heck of a lot, last time I looked)? For pete’s sake, **Polycarp** , I expect this from others, but sheesh! This does NOT have the effect of law; no one can be forced to honor it, no one is under threat or coercion to even so much as pay attention to it; just how many people in these fifty United States of America do you reckon’ even _know_ about this? > [@](#): > > I think a day set aside when believers can together petition their deity or deities in pursuit of a common cause is an excellent idea. I don’t think Congress is the appropriate body to call for one Fine. The Continental Congress in 1775 first declared a NDP, Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, Harry Truman as well. It took me two minutes to find just this little bit out. It’s hardly scarred our poor, miserable, defiantly irreligious bellicose natures, has it? > [@](#): > > All that said, the text of the resolution as given in the last paragraph of the OP is one that’s by no means objectionable to me personally, though I think it’s inappropriate for the Congress to presume to call their non-monotheist\* constituents to such a prayer. Frankly, it’s comments like this one that truly make my jaw ache. We are not a homogenous society, right? Can we not address issues that a strong majority of the people support without constantly harping about those left out? AND WHY SHOULD WE? I swear. This reminds me of children; **it simply cannot be all or nothing at all.** ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/20 "2003-03-26T23:20:03Z")
Why aren’t those idiots using their time to do something important and useful, like renaming french fries?! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376.md?page=2)