# Aw, for the love o’ God . . . “National Day of Prayer and Fasting” **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376 "2003-03-26T21:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/41 "2003-03-27T01:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*Just another chapter in the continuing story of Shrub’s seditious attempts to catastrophically blur the boundaries between church and state. I have not seen such disgusting un-American insanity occupy the oval office since Nixon. \*\* Uh, **Zenster** , this particular insanity comes from the House of Represenatives, not the White House. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/42 "2003-03-27T01:46:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NaSultainne \* > \*\*[minor quibble]The word is “establishment”.[/minor quibble] > > A proclamation on **one** day out of 365 (three hundred and sixty-five, for pete’s sake!) hardly constitutes either “endorsement” or “establishment”. > > You are overreacting and overreaching. Seriously. \*\* A resolution by the government saying “Let’s all pray!” is **not** an endorsement of religion? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/43 "2003-03-27T01:47:56Z")
**NaSultainne** has a point. From the website of Americans United for Separation of Church and State: _“The NDP was established as an annual event by an act of Congress in 1952. Originally a “floating holiday,” the NDP was officially designated the first Thursday in May when Congress amended the law in 1988.”_ So, boys and girls, this is hardly something wholly new and unprecedented. We’ve had Congressional chaplains, paid for out of public funds, for quite some time. “In God We Trust” appears on our currency. I’m not crazy about all this, but our government has, on the whole, been remarkably good about not cramming religion down our throats. And that’s something comparatively few governments around the world can say on a historical basis. Now, if we can get back to taking a good healthy whack at Bush’s church-based initiatives and “school choice”… ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/44 "2003-03-27T01:56:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\* > > Now, if we can get back to taking a good healthy whack at Bush’s church-based initiatives and “school choice”… \*\* Now, I’m not a big fan of the vouchers idea, but what’s wrong with the faith-based initiatives? As long as the money goes to any group that will use it to help in the area, isn’t that better than the government trying to fix it? ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/45 "2003-03-27T02:02:45Z")
This bothers me mainly because it’s superficial, cynical show-boating. Those of faith don’t need prompting from Da Feds to turn to prayer, much less scripted outlines about when, why and what for. I suspect the devout have been praying all along, according to their individual consciences, because it’s so central to their lives anyway. I find it peculiar, to say the least, that our fearless leaders find it advisable to throw an offically sanctioned Spiritual Pep Rally. Said Pep Rally would be redundant for the faithful, and intrusive for believers and non-believers alike. I somehow doubt Da Feds’ leadership role actually stretches to " GIMME an _A_"-type hucksterism in prayer. IMO the authors of this idiocy, since they’re so devout, would be better advised to spend more time in quiet prayer, seeking wisdom and leading by example. Veb ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/46 "2003-03-27T02:09:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chigger \* > \*\*Ok. Sounds ok to me. Is it alright to smoke while I’m praying? Maybe I’ll ask for better cigarettes … > > … goddammit, why can’t we get better cigarettes in this country? > > And can I ask for an extension in unemployment benefits while I’m at it? Or how about a new Senator? \*\* Lets all pray that **chigger** gets all he posted here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/47 "2003-03-27T02:25:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by asterion \* > \*\*Now, I’m not a big fan of the vouchers idea, but what’s wrong with the faith-based initiatives? As long as the money goes to any group that will use it to help in the area, isn’t that better than the government trying to fix it? \*\* The subject deserves one or more threads of its own, but [this](http://www.au.org/press/pr030324.htm) describes some of my concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/48 "2003-03-27T02:30:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*What purpose does it serve? What is it supposed to accomplish for the country. It’s completely gratuitous and it’s a violation of the establishment clause. What a bunch of crap. \*\* [sub]Oh, man, this is gonna hurt…but I gotta do it.[/sub] I agree with **Diogenes the Cynic.** [sub]I doubt that _that_ will happen frequently.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/49 "2003-03-27T03:05:50Z")
It makes perfect sense. If you are against the war, than you are unpatriotic. If you do not believe in God, then you are not a real American and if you are fat, you are an unworthy human. Let’s put all these ideas in a resolution and make it official! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/50 "2003-03-27T04:07:16Z")
**Biggirl** , I think you’ve really put your finger on something. There’s a subtext to this which is about manipulating religious sentiment to solicit support for the war (and for GWB, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/51 "2003-03-27T04:28:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I say we declare this Friday a Nationa Day of Debauchery and Gluttony. Who’s with me? \*\* Isn’t that, like, every Friday? Or is it just me? ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/52 "2003-03-27T06:28:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > Jesus … this is starting to read like one of those really scary novels about the Right taking over the country. > > I guess this just represents Bush pre-emptively working on consolidating his (should be safe) vote for 2004 – and greasing Falwell’s colon for old times sake, but nonetheless … \*ONLY IN AMERICA \* **London\_Calling** , not to bum your high joining the usual gangbang on Bush, but this particular declaration has been in practice at various times since _before_ we tossed you sorry sods out of the country. It also means, believe it or not, that **William Jefferson Clinton each and every year of his presidency** followed the exact same policy. Perhaps you’d prefer to seek professional treatment for your uncontrollable left knee-jerk problem. :dubious: :dubious: :dubious: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/53 "2003-03-27T07:25:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > In actuality, if they did pass a “There is no God” day I would be suitably surprised. I dont think a majority of congress would ever think of commiting political suicide let alone do it as a group. After that emotion passed, I would then nonchalantly ignore the resolution. Suuuuuuure you would…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/54 "2003-03-27T08:19:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*Maybe if Congress had been praying steadfastly for guidance before this, we wouldn’t be participating in the slaughter of human beings – which is against _my_ religion. > > Blessed are the peacemakers… > \*\* I heard that a Wisconsin representative wants to introduce a “blessed be the cheesemakers” resolution. But I’m holding out for the “blessed be the big-nosed” resolution. 😃 and oh yeah [www.godoffmoney.com](http://www.godoffmoney.com) trust in yourself! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/55 "2003-03-27T10:42:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*I think a day set aside when believers can together petition their deity or deities in pursuit of a common cause is an excellent idea. \*\* Yes it is a great idea isn’t it? I believe it’s already been done, they call it “Sunday”. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/56 "2003-03-27T10:50:50Z")
Eve, it always seems to bother you whenever someone prays. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/57 "2003-03-27T11:17:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NaSultainne \* > London\_Calling, not to bum your high joining the usual gangbang on Bush, but this particular declaration has been in practice at various times since _before_ we tossed you sorry sods out of the country. It also means, believe it or not, that William Jefferson Clinton each and every year of his presidency followed the exact same policy. > > Perhaps you’d prefer to seek professional treatment for your uncontrollable left knee-jerk problem. I was aware Clinton had been associated with kneeling activity of some manner and I’m relieved to know it involved prayer You obviously don’t think this National Day is related to the president addressing his core (re)electoral constituency …. hey ho. Thank you for your terribly insightful contribution to this thread. And charmed, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/58 "2003-03-27T13:19:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Eve, it always seems to bother you whenever someone prays. \*\* **Lib** , you miss the point. Speaking as an atheist myself, I have no problem with prayer in and of itself; if you want to pray on your own or with a group of your fellow belieivers, go right ahead with my benediction. But when the legislative body of this country decides to declare a day when all citizens are supposed to pray and fast, they are violating the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. According to the majority decision in _Lemon v. Kurtzman_ (1971), the effect of a law in not establishing religion may be determined as follows: first, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion; finally, the statute must not foster “an excessive government entanglement with religion.” The congressional proclamation clearly fails the first provision and veers mighily close to the line in the other two. You can pray, but you can’t force prayer on the unwilling. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/59 "2003-03-27T13:52:09Z")
X-slayer said, “This bit of trivia is not the worst and certainly not the last.” I’m sure you’re right. But that doesn’t make it OK. It amounts to intimidation and it’s wrong. When each of these little endorsements of religion is added to the others, it IS a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376/60 "2003-03-27T13:56:45Z")
Lib said, “Eve, it always seems to bother you whenever someone prays.” It should bother everyone (including the praying folks) when the government sticks their nose into something as personal as religion and puts an official stamp on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-for-the-love-o-god-national-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/164376.md?page=4)