# Aw, heck: I bounced off "Flashman" by George MacDonald Fraser **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662 "2016-05-02T02:51:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/61 "2016-05-05T22:13:31Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > . . . and does actually rape an Afghan dancing girl later on . . . Ah, well. No, I guess I won’t be picking this book up again. (I am not one of those who put down “Lord Foul’s Bane” after reading the rape scene. I didn’t get that far. I put the book down, finding it boring and dreary, a few pages before I would have gotten to the rape scene.) **Siam Sam** : I will make the effort to read “Quartered Safe Out Here” for the historic interest. British operations in Burma are sadly neglected in WWII historical writing. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/62 "2016-05-05T22:57:55Z")
I’m a pretty big Flashman fan, though not in the first rank of completely impassioned devotees: I find some of the novels easier and more agreeable reading, than others. (Have read the first in the series [_Flashman_ – Afghanistan early 1840s] once, and not wished to read it again.) I feel that re the series as a whole, **Malthus** says it all here: > [@Malthus](#): > > I do love me some Flashman, but I admit, as others have already, he’s not for everyone. > > The conceit employed by the author is this: Flashman has only one virtue - he’s honest (at least, in his ‘memoirs’, if nowhere else). His cruelty, selfishness, racism and misogyny is simply an (accurate!) reflection of the similar traits dominant in the society of his time - where he differs, is that he’s self-aware of all that, and adds “self-conscious cowardice” to the mix. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Personally I very much disliked how the character was “softened” in the later books. It just seemed so dishonestly done. He didn’t become nicer/braver, the author just said brave things were done for cowardly reasons. That’s how I recall anyways. > [@Colibri](#): > > I also disliked how much the character was softened in the last few novels. If in the first novel he was just too vile, by the last ones he almost became warm and cuddly (even if still cynical). He was at his best in the middle novels. I see the “softening” at least in part, as a function of Flashman growing older and, maybe not exactly wiser, but more subtle in his wickedness: with more self-control, and greater skill in simulating, for those around him, being a good fellow. In the first book he is, after all, only a kid – as **Kimstu** says, aged 19 when first posted to India. The very young human male has, in general, a fair number of unadmirable traits, and can be pretty brutish – even if not, for most of his kind, going so far as committing rape. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Just to add a counterpoint here, I picked up _The Pyrates_ (on the theory I loved _Flashman_) - and really didn’t like it. Can’t even put my finger on why, it just didn’t work for me and I found it a chore to read. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Ditto. I didn’t strongly dislike _The Pyrates_ and managed to finish it, but it was just too self-consciously parodic and wisecracky for me. > > Same sort of thing that I find hard to take (although I tolerate it better) in Terry Pratchett’s _Discworld_ novels—the plots and action are loads of fun but the narration suggests rimshots and a laugh track. Even though the jokes are generally good, they’re too strongly pointed. Same for me, only more so, concerning _The Pyrates._ (And I’ve actually found Pratchett unreadable, and almost totally un-funny, for the same overall reasons.) I got most of the way through _The Pyrates_, with difficulty; then could take no more, and “bailed”. I suspect that to delight in _The Pyrates_, one needs to be a film buff; which I’m not (and Fraser was). > [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I’ve recommended Flashman to a few people now and none who tried it liked it enough to continue the series. The oddest reaction to Flashman which I’ve known, was from a friend to whom I recommended the books. He tried _Flash For Freedom_ (slaving in West Africa; and the US Deep South pre-Civil War) – in which our anti-hero does a fair few distinctly dastardly things. My friend finished the book, but pronounced himself not hugely impressed – and he claimed himself a bit puzzled as to all the hoo-ha about what a rotten, nasty individual Flashman is: Flashman struck my friend as a fairly averagely decent guy. This friend is, admittedly, a bit of a “professional contrarian”, apparently seeing himself as duty-bound to come up with unusual and paradoxical “takes” on things – especially on those which large numbers of people rave about. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > He also participates in the (illegal) slave trade in a later book, for which he could have gotten into a lot of trouble. To cut Flashy a little slack here: his involvement with the slave trade is against his will, as a consequence of a dire personal predicament which he gets into. He recounts his experiencing the occasional twinge of sympathy for the Africans whom his slaver associates are abducting from their home and transporting westward in nasty conditions; though he is of course too preoccupied with his own personal mess and how he might get out of it, to do anything to try to help the victims. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/63 "2016-05-06T00:44:37Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > To cut Flashy a little slack here: his involvement with the slave trade is against his will, as a consequence of a dire personal predicament which he gets into. He recounts his experiencing the occasional twinge of sympathy for the Africans whom his slaver associates are abducting from their home and transporting westward in nasty conditions; though he is of course too preoccupied with his own personal mess and how he might get out of it, to do anything to try to help the victims. He does pick out a woman to be his “companion” for lack of a better word. I may be mistaken being male, but I think she agreed to receive better treatment that her associates. I do not recall what happens to her. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/64 "2016-05-06T03:16:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Ah, well. No, I guess I won’t be picking this book up again. > > (I am not one of those who put down “Lord Foul’s Bane” after reading the rape scene. I didn’t get that far. I put the book down, finding it boring and dreary, a few pages before I would have gotten to the rape scene.) > > **Siam Sam** : I will make the effort to read “Quartered Safe Out Here” for the historic interest. British operations in Burma are sadly neglected in WWII historical writing. If it makes a difference, the rape isn’t described in any detail, it’s not portrayed as a good thing, and Fraser seems to have creeped himself out sufficiently that he didn’t put any more rape scenes in the series. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/65 "2016-05-06T03:23:48Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > My friend finished the book, but pronounced himself not hugely impressed – and he claimed himself a bit puzzled as to all the hoo-ha about what a rotten, nasty individual Flashman is: Flashman struck my friend as a fairly averagely decent guy. This friend is, admittedly, a bit of a “professional contrarian”, apparently seeing himself as duty-bound to come up with unusual and paradoxical “takes” on things – especially on those which large numbers of people rave about… I guess my thoughts on the Afghan war as portrayed in Flashman vs. actual history were a bit ‘contrarian’ too, in the sense that Fraser almost takes a bit too much of a pro-Afghan and anti-British slant. The killing of Burnes apparently happened (according to Persian sources) after a sexual slave fled the house of an Afghan noble and took up with Burnes, and the outraged noble led a posse to attack his house. Say what you will about his sex life, but a consensual relationship is surely better than a sexual relationship based on slavery, and in Burnes’ place I wouldn’t have returned the slave either. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/66 "2016-05-06T04:01:21Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > If it makes a difference, the rape isn’t described in any detail, it’s not portrayed as a good thing, and Fraser seems to have creeped himself out sufficiently that he didn’t put any more rape scenes in the series. To tell the truth, yes, your opinion actually does make a difference to me. I disagree with you on various things, but here, specifically, I value your views. I’m not actually totally sure why I opened this thread. I think it was just a generalized whine. But I’ve received a LOT of very well-thought-out and insightful responses – thank you, everyone! – and now I’m completely vacillating in my thoughts whether or not to go back and finish the book! I think my original response was too “black and white” – “This is an awful book with no redeeming qualities at all” – and, more properly, it does have some. (I never had this problem with James Bond, in the Fleming stories and novels – but I know a good many people who think that Bond is just about as depraved as Flashman. Several of his “seductions” are pretty damned rape-ish.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/67 "2016-05-06T05:49:28Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (I never had this problem with James Bond, in the Fleming stories and novels – but I know a good many people who think that Bond is just about as depraved as Flashman. Several of his “seductions” are pretty damned rape-ish.) Yeah, but Bond one can just laugh at for his ridiculous interpretation of “sophisticated hard guy” (_oh my, you “went into training” for a whole **five days** , and at the end of it could run a whole **mile**! What a man! Wow, you defeated a bad guy at cards by sweating hard while watching a sequence of independent random events you had no control over and no foreknowledge of! How awfully clever of you!_) while enjoying the writing and the (often equally silly) plots. Flashman is harder not to take seriously. One may (must) despise him for his fundamental viciousness and cowardice, but one can’t just laugh at him for a preening jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/68 "2016-05-06T08:14:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > He does pick out a woman to be his “companion” for lack of a better word. > I may be mistaken being male, but I think she agreed to receive better treatment that her associates. > > I do not recall what happens to her. Yes, indeed, “Lady Caroline Lamb”. Flashman accommodates her in his cabin, for his exclusive use; but for the essentially selfish reason that he gets interested in teaching her English (and odd tags of Latin). This is the thing which first persuades the captain – a criminal lunatic but something of a genius – that Flashman might be anything more than a useless dolt, forced upon him by the company’s owners. The captain has ideas of using Lady Caroline as an interpreter on future voyages. I, too, forget what ultimately becomes of Lady C. I recall that nearly all the slaves are sold at an entrepôt in Central America; after which, the slavers finally happen to get into trouble with the authorities. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I guess my thoughts on the Afghan war as portrayed in Flashman vs. actual history were a bit ‘contrarian’ too, in the sense that Fraser almost takes a bit too much of a pro-Afghan and anti-British slant. The killing of Burnes apparently happened (according to Persian sources) after a sexual slave fled the house of an Afghan noble and took up with Burnes, and the outraged noble led a posse to attack his house. Say what you will about his sex life, but a consensual relationship is surely better than a sexual relationship based on slavery, and in Burnes’ place I wouldn’t have returned the slave either. I’d reckon it thoroughly reasonable to disagree with a view of the Afghans as splendid, noble types, as opposed to British meddling would-be tyrants. I do feel, though, that nobody except my perverse friend could conclude that Flashman is basically a decent chap, and wonder what the fuss re his perceived wickedness, is all about ! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/69 "2016-05-06T09:19:53Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > **Siam Sam** : I will make the effort to read “Quartered Safe Out Here” for the historic interest. British operations in Burma are sadly neglected in WWII historical writing. The full title is _Quartered Safe Out Here: A Recollection of the War in Burma_. The phrase “Quartered Safe Out Here” is taken from Rudyard Kipling’s “Gunga Din” and just a bit misleading, as Fraser was not quartered safe anywhere while there. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/70 "2016-05-06T15:24:48Z")
“You may talk o’ gin and beer while you’re quartered safe out here, and sent to penny fights and Aldershot it. But when it comes to slaughter you do your work on water and you’ll lick the bloomin’ boots of him that’s got it.” I pleased that I can still do that from memory. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/71 "2016-05-06T17:16:40Z")
One of the fascinating things in \*Quartered Safe Out Here \*is Fraser’s description of the Borderers he served with (from the region along the border between England and Scotland). If this stimulates your interest in the history of the area you could do worse than read Fraser’s _[The Steel Bonnets](http://www.amazon.com/Steel-Bonnets-Anglo-Scottish-Border-Reivers/dp/1632204568/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462554924&sr=8-1&keywords=the+steel+bonnets)_ about the Border and the Borderers in the sixteenth century, the time of the raids and the feuds of the great riding families. It is straight history but told with GMF’s style and wit. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/72 "2016-05-07T01:38:09Z")
I am loving this thread! I came in to whine about one book…and come away with two others recommended! I will pick up both Steel Bonnets and Quartered Safe! Thank you! (The SDMB is one of the best “critique salons” I’ve ever seen!) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/73 "2016-05-07T08:10:32Z")
I still say you should give the Flashman books a further chance. It will definitely be a loss to you if you cannot continue them. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/74 "2016-05-07T08:39:04Z")
I think at the beginning of The Steel Bonnets, Fraser demonstrates out the adventurous and far-flung influence of the Reivers by pointing out that at the time of the Moon Landings, Nixon, Armstrong and some other astronaut were all descendents and would have glowered well from under a morion’s brim. Of course Nixon was famously a quaker, and such philosophy’s antecedents would have been anathema to the fastidious Border Folk — when supplies were low the borderer would find instead of a hearty breakfast under the lid, a pair of spurs. A hint from the good wife it was cattle-lifting time. He also pointed out that whether James VI & I was a cowardly mincing, semi-homosexual sissy or not, \* he went through the Borders like a dose of salts and destroyed the anarchy as no power before him on either side of the march. - As fondly imagined by professional anti-Stuartist historians with tongues lolling out and hands moving rapidly in their breeks. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/75 "2016-05-07T12:50:41Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > I think at the beginning of The Steel Bonnets, Fraser demonstrates out the adventurous and far-flung influence of the Reivers by pointing out that at the time of the Moon Landings, Nixon, Armstrong and some other astronaut were all descendents and would have glowered well from under a morion’s brim. > > Of course Nixon was famously a quaker, and such philosophy’s antecedents would have been anathema to the fastidious Border Folk — when supplies were low the borderer would find instead of a hearty breakfast under the lid, a pair of spurs. A hint from the good wife it was cattle-lifting time. > **He also pointed out that whether James VI & I was a cowardly mincing, semi-homosexual sissy or not, \* he went through the Borders like a dose of salts and destroyed the anarchy as no power before him on either side of the march.** > > - As fondly imagined by professional anti-Stuartist historians with tongues lolling out and hands moving rapidly in their breeks. I should know more about the subject, but was it as James I or VI he did this? I believe James also had to be prevented doing similar to the Highlands & Western Isles. Mincing, sissy, psychopaths, the very \*worst \*type of villain. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/76 "2016-05-07T13:57:23Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > If it makes a difference, the rape isn’t described in any detail, it’s not portrayed as a good thing, and Fraser seems to have creeped himself out sufficiently that he didn’t put any more rape scenes in the series. I’ve points like this raised before. IIRC, Flashman right after the rape says something like “mind you, this was the only time I’ve raped a woman” so Frasier clearly signalled it wouldn’t happen again right then. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/77 "2016-05-07T14:11:45Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > One of the fascinating things in \*Quartered Safe Out Here \*is Fraser’s description of the Borderers he served with (from the region along the border between England and Scotland). If this stimulates your interest in the history of the area you could do worse than read Fraser’s _[The Steel Bonnets](http://www.amazon.com/Steel-Bonnets-Anglo-Scottish-Border-Reivers/dp/1632204568/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462554924&sr=8-1&keywords=the+steel+bonnets)_ about the Border and the Borderers in the sixteenth century, the time of the raids and the feuds of the great riding families. It is straight history but told with GMF’s style and wit. Fraser wrote two works of fiction set in the milieu of _The Steel Bonnets_: the short novel _The Candlemass Road_ (publ. 1993), and _The Reavers_ (publ. 2007, the year before his death) – apparently a humorous re-working of _The Candlemass Road_, much in the style of _The Pyrates_. I admit to not having read either of these Border-set fiction pieces; various factors put me off the former – and with the latter: I couldn’t handle _The Pyrates_, so would expect to find the Border comedy offering, painful. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/78 "2016-05-07T21:44:32Z")
Flashy started out as rotter, then became a cad, a scoundrel, and finally ended up a mere rogue. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/79 "2016-05-07T22:19:59Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > Fraser wrote two works of fiction set in the milieu of _The Steel Bonnets_: the short novel _The Candlemass Road_ (publ. 1993), and _The Reavers_ (publ. 2007, the year before his death) – apparently a humorous re-working of _The Candlemass Road_, much in the style of _The Pyrates_. I admit to not having read either of these Border-set fiction pieces; various factors put me off the former – and with the latter: I couldn’t handle _The Pyrates_, so would expect to find the Border comedy offering, painful. I loved _The Pyrates_, but _The Reavers_ was pretty poor; it’s the only book of his I’ve never finished. [_The Hollywood History of the World_](http://www.amazon.com/HOLLYWOOD-HISTORY-George-MacDonald-Fraser/dp/0449904385), on the other hand, is a work of sheer genius. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/80 "2016-05-07T23:26:00Z")
Another thing I’ll say in defence of the Flashman series: The historical research is _meticulous_; as someone who loves the Victorian Era, it’s a very accurate depiction and when there are artistic liberties taken, they are still justifiable and work well in context - the footnotes alone are excellent reading for anyone wanting to learn more about the era. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662.md?page=5)