# Aw, heck: I bounced off "Flashman" by George MacDonald Fraser **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662 "2016-05-02T02:51:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/101 "2016-05-09T01:28:27Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’m still confused by how Flashman could have been in the Crimean War, when the first book in the series takes place after the Crimean War…and there is no gap in his history into which a prequel could be shoehorned. > > Did Fraser just quietly blow off the timeline, and write the prequel anyway? The literary device being used is that each book is in the form of some papers found after Flashman’s death, and the books are published in the order in which the papers are found, so the timeline jumps around. They certainly did not come out in a chronological order. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/102 "2016-05-09T01:53:03Z")
Naw, I just mistook the context. On the side-subject, some series are written (and published) in internal chronological order…but others aren’t. The Horatio Hornblower books were written in a scattershot, over various periods of HH’s life and career. In contrast, the Alan Lewrie, Nicholas Ramage, and Thomas Kydd books appear to be written in chronological order. (And I love all three series!) Bernard Cornwell’s “Sharpe” books started out being in chronological order, until he went back and stuck in a handful of prequels. You can sort of think of it as being two separate series. In Sci Fi, Poul Anderson wrote the “Dominic Flandry” series in scattershot order. For the Flandry and Hornblower series, it makes decent sense to sort them by chronological order and read them that way. (In contrast, C.S. Lewis’ “Narnia” series probably should be read in the canonical order, not chronologically.) I get the impression that Flashman should be read in publication order, and not sorted to be read in chronological order. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/103 "2016-05-09T02:49:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > We also only got a brief look at his service in the Zulu War at Isandhlwana and Rorke’s Drift. Both would have offered exceptional opportunities for cowardice disguised as bravery. Fleeing on a gun carriage, kicking some poor bastard off in order that the horses could run faster. A coward after my own heart! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/104 "2016-05-09T03:41:40Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The literary device being used is that each book is in the form of some papers found after Flashman’s death, and the books are published in the order in which the papers are found, so the timeline jumps around. They certainly did not come out in a chronological order. The first five books are chronological, but after that they jump around all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/105 "2016-05-09T09:15:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The first five books are chronological, but after that they jump around all over the place. I’d read _Flashman at the Charge_ first myself, the Crimean War, then jumped around after that so I’d forgotten the first few were in order. But diving in at any point is okay. ---
**Author:** ![Flocculencio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@Flocculencio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flocculencio)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/106 "2016-06-06T20:46:11Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > Flashy’s certainly not for everyone, but GMF’s wartime memoir _Quartered Safe Out Here_ is a great read. > > [Quartered Safe Out Here - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartered_Safe_Out_Here) _Quartered…_ is a good read with the caveat that Fraser’s casual prejudice against Indians is on display (notably at Officer Training where he mocks the Indian officer who is pro independence). He’s very happy with the Indian officers who appear t be in favour of British rule. I admit that it’s a fair representation of the likely attitudes of a young British officer cadet of the period (darkies are jolly good chaps when led by white officers) but it can be a bit jarring. ---
**Author:** ![Flocculencio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@Flocculencio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flocculencio)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/107 "2016-06-06T20:48:45Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The literary device being used is that each book is in the form of some papers found after Flashman’s death, and the books are published in the order in which the papers are found, so the timeline jumps around. They certainly did not come out in a chronological order. I was always amused by the additional conceit that Flashy’s sister in law had got her hands on some of the middle volumes of his memoirs and censored all the (rather mild) expletives he uses but left the sex unexpurgated because she didn’t actually understand what he was talking about b ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/108 "2016-06-06T22:57:44Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’m an addict of the Flashman series now, but I did feel a bit queasy midway through the first one. The use of "n\*\*\*\*\*’ didn’t bother me so much (particularly as it isn’t being used about black people), but Flashman does attempt to rape his father’s girlfriend and does actually rape an Afghan dancing girl later on (for which he comes close to being castrated later on). I think the book and the series would have been better off without it, as it makes it hard for me to identify with him. > > The book does get a lot better from there, though, and the later books are even better. My personal favourites are _Flashman and the Mountain of Light_ and _Flashman and the Great Game_, both set in India. The key is you’re not supposed to take him as a hero, or particularly identify with him. He’s an antihero. Fraser’s a genius at dramatizing some of the most interesting episodes in history (in the first book I mentioned, for example, the First Anglo-Sikh war). > > One interesting thing about the first _Flashman_ book is that Fraser (surprisingly for an enthusiast of the British Empire) actually makes the Afghans somewhat more sympathetic than they deserve, and the British colonialists less so. I was reading William (?) Dalrymple’s recent popular book on the Anglo-Afghan war on a plane ride recently, and I came away from it with a much more negative opinion of the Afghan side in that conflict, and of Akbar Khan in particular, than I had on reading _Flashman_. To be fair to old Flashy, in _Flashman And the Redskins_ he _does_ forgo the opportunity to rape a captive Apache maiden - he seduces her, instead - which is why he’s the only survivor when the Apaches overrun and slaughter the group of scalphunters he’s fallen in with. Flashman is unquestionably a vile man, but not unremittingly so. He’s inclined to give Indians, Afghans, Zulus, Sikhs, and other “lesser” races that he encounters exactly as much respect as he gives Europeans. Which is, sometimes, not a lot. But he understands, for example, the grievances of the sepoys who rebelled in India, and describes the Chiricahua Apaches that he briefly marries into as “clubbable” - a high compliment, from him. Really, the charm of the _Flashman_ novels is Fraser’s meticulous research into Flashy’s time and place, and the skill with which he is able to insert his protagonist into all manner of historic occasions. If you enjoy that aspect, but still can’t stomach Flashy, Fraser did write one work of straight history that he tells in the same breathless, I-know-it-sounds-ridiculous-but-it-really-did-happen style: [The Steel Bonnets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Steel_Bonnets), about the Anglo-Scottish Border reivers of the Tudor and Jacobean eras. It’s a fascinating look at a period of British history that often gets overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/109 "2016-06-07T01:13:48Z")
> [@Flocculencio](#): > > _Quartered…_ is a good read with the caveat that Fraser’s casual prejudice against Indians is on display (notably at Officer Training where he mocks the Indian officer who is pro independence). He’s very happy with the Indian officers who appear t be in favour of British rule. He and his associates went to great length to keep the pro independence guy from killing someone. If you don’t need a big white brother at times like that, I don’t know when you do. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662/110 "2016-06-07T23:32:08Z")
I seem to have safely quartered the thread elsewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-heck-i-bounced-off-flashman-by-george-macdonald-fraser/753662.md?page=5)