# Aw, it's adorable! Democrats learned to dog-whistle! (Bernie's 'white' support) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 11, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795 "2016-02-11T05:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/21 "2016-02-11T16:12:04Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Which raises an interesting question. Blacks as a demographic disproportionately occupy the lowest economic echelons. Precisely the demographic that stands to benefit the most from Bernie’s democratic socialist policies. So why aren’t these “intelligent, informed” voters supporting him? Indeed why aren’t they cheering him on like the second coming of Jesus Christ himself? It’s a good question, and there are some obvious possibilities: 1. Shouty Old White Man Syndrome. I’ve heard black Bernie Sanders supporters admit that, although it’s not fair, his Shouty Old White Man attitude is hard for them to take, and that they like to read his words rather than watch video of him for this reason. 2. Community Building. Sanders tends to think that his proposals stand on their own; Clinton tends to build ties to other people. (These are very wide generalizations, of course). If Clinton has built more ties to black leaders, that’s gonna show. 3. Pragmatism. Plenty of folks, white and black, think that Clinton has a better chance of enacting a progressive platform than Sanders does, despite the fact that Sanders wants a more progressive platform than Clinton does. There are plenty of reasons that a particular black American might support Clinton over Sanders. Some are good and some are bad. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/22 "2016-02-11T16:17:27Z")
May not be anything more complicated than pessimism. Feel much the same myself, I would be tickled to believe that America has advanced to the point that Bernie is a viable candidate, but I’m not at all sure that I do. I don’t like Hillary much, but the burgeoning fanaticism of the right has me worried. If I were black, I might very well be worried that if Bernie could, in fact, cobble together a winning coalition without Hillary’s reliance on black voters, that the concerns of black voters would recede into the background. And, of course, they have every reason to worry that if the Trog Right is ascendant, that will be bad for America in general, but much worse for them. And they have a point. Lefty white, I am infuriated and outraged by things like Ferguson. But, of course. I am not _frightened_ by them, not directly. It is less likely that I or mine will be staring down the barrel of police racism. A step forward is better for all of us, but a step backward would be worse for them. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/23 "2016-02-11T21:06:54Z")
Its not just that Bernie would lose the general election, people seem to think he would be a significant drag on congressional races ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/24 "2016-02-11T21:44:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its not just that Bernie would lose the general election, people seem to think he would be a significant drag on congressional races That is certainly what the Clinton camp would like you to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/25 "2016-02-11T22:10:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Or something. Actually, I think Bubba and Hilly have probably been doing it all along, but this one is pretty clever. > > It’s seemed funny to me that we keep hearing (from mainstream white media, natch) about how Bernie’s support is only “white progressives.” This is backed up by claims that Hillary is beloved by blacks—again, white media making these claims—as if she just is, & we don’t need to explain it. But why? Why would Hillary Clinton be heavily favored by American blacks? Okay the mainstream media are reporting on **polling** , they aren’t inventing the monstrous polling discrepancies. As for “why”, dig into some of the polling. Hillary leads tremendously among **all Democratic voters** who answer in the affirmative that they “want to see a continuation of President Obama’s policies”, and President Obama has a 90% approval rating among black voters. Clinton also served in President Obama’s cabinet, and to be frank Obama has essentially endorsed Hillary as of late. That may be all the explanation that is really necessary. > [@](#): > > Marian Wright Edelman called the Clintons out back in the 1990’s for the welfare reform bill. Michelle Alexander lays a share of the blame for the “school-to-prison pipeline” on policies that date to the Clinton era. DLC-style white Democrats like Missouri’s Jay Nixon are now seeing the wrath of black voters. Certainly Hillary lost black voters in 2008 for obvious reasons. Bill has said he views the sentencing changes as a mistake, and as First Lady only a small “portion” of the blame for those things is going to “stick” to Hillary. Almost no one is going to blame Hillary for Bill’s policies. If she defends Bill’s policies they will, but with Bill repudiating the stricter sentencing passed down during his administration that situation isn’t occurring. > [@](#): > > When black people talk about politics today, are they even talking about the Presidential election? Um. Probably, somewhere. But it seems like to many blacks in America, that’s a bunch of white folk, and who cares, did you hear about the latest three brothers and sisters killed by police? I think when people are doing polls asking who you’re going to vote for for President, including ones within the last week in states like Georgia, and where Sanders is behind like 25-30% because of black voters, then yes–they are talking about Presidential politics. “Lack of awareness” is a harder explanation at this point, Bernie has been very heavily in the national media for about 4 weeks now. > [@](#): > > Now Sanders does have a different position with black Democrats than with white ones. He’s a candidate from a white rural state whose appeal is egalitarian, in favor of quality of life issues & the welfare state, and effectively both _reform_ and a little _populist._ White leftists today probably are animated by economic concerns. Black Democrats, though? Right now, they’re preoccupied by structural racism. And they don’t have to be poor to be Democrats. Even though American blacks are poorer on average than American whites; black Democratic primary voters may average a little more upscale than white Democratic primary voters, and bourgeois blacks may be in the party for very different reasons than Bernie’s young progressives. So the difference is real. Bernie doesn’t have associations with leadership in the black community. The black electorate is much more amenable to being swayed by swaying community leaders. Prominent ministers, prominent political advocates, prominent local community organizers etc. This is very different from diffuse white voters who don’t generally line up behind their pastor or local community center leaders. > [@](#): > > But why has Bernie gained ground so rapidly among whites, and not among blacks? Well, some of it is his fault, probably. He’s working on it. Some of it is that blacks _really are_ much more preoccupied by city governments and police killing people than by the Presidential primaries, and not paying that much attention. Because he’s not a traditional politician who knows how to woo people like black political leaders. Hillary can do that better than Bernie with both eyes closed and both hands tied behind her back. > [@](#): > > Here’s the whistle though: It’ll usually be stated as, “Sanders needs to broaden his appeal beyond white progressives.” > > What’s objectionable about that?! It’s technically true! Except that it’s injecting a racial element into the narrative; a narrative shaped by (white) media that are blatantly upscale, elite, and in the tank for HRC. Bernie didn’t counter it quickly to take control, because his own narrative didn’t mention all that identitarian stuff. Racial identity is relevant in politics. > [@](#): > > “Only white progressives.” Got it? > > The “only” is usually only implied. But Sanders is framed as only having appeal to white people. This is stated in reporting, and it is technically true. At the time. But the real divider in rates of support for Sanders is…familiarity. He’s gained ground as people have learned about him. He hasn’t among blacks. > [@](#): > > Is there something about Sanders that doesn’t connect with black people? Well, maybe. I’ve been wondering about this. I mean, he did leave Brooklyn for Vermont, that sounds a little like “White Flight.” He is well-liked by rural white folks. Too much focus on blasting Wall Street–an issue that blacks do not care about. Too many supporters of his are angry white “kids” (aged 18-35) who want to yell at you and say you’d have to be an IDIOT not to support Bernie. That pitch doesn’t work with the black demographic. Bernie can win black votes, but not the way he’s won votes so far. > [@](#): > > You’ll say I’m being crazy to call this a dog whistle. Well, maybe you don’t hear it. But the likes of ABC News have been blatantly in the tank for Hillary to an awesome degree. I think they’ve been playing us a little bit. You might have something resembling a point if it wasn’t for the fact this effect is real, measured by polling, and continues despite Bernie’s increased public standing. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/26 "2016-02-11T22:12:20Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > OK, maybe it’s the wrong word. But I think the media have been, intentionally or not, subtly implying that Sanders is a big ol’ racist. > > Frankly, that seems pretty odd, considering his background. (Associated with international socialism, the civil rights movement, and so on.) But it’s a characterization that some will suspect is true. I don’t think he’s a racist but I don’t think he’s given deep thought about race. I know he marched with MLK or whatever, but he was a young man then and race hasn’t informed his political career. In one instance when confronted with the question of how to address structural racism, he just responded with his stump speech essentially–economic inequality, with the assumption that fixing economic inequality would “fix black problems.” It might fix a lot of them actually, but that’s not the message you want to use, it makes it sound to the black voter like their problems are not at all related to race but are just related to economic inequality in general. It ignores the continued, real, disadvantage that comes with being black in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/27 "2016-02-11T22:14:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d note that African-American voters were solidly behind Clinton in 2008 as well, until they weren’t. Have a little faith. They had switched harder and faster by this point, and the only reason they weren’t behind Obama is he was a dark horse at the beginning of 2008’s primary season. He had a tiny bit of name recognition but his relatively brief Senate career and his unremarkable career in the Illinois legislature made him seem like a light weight. People didn’t take him seriously. Then they did. Bernie has been taken seriously since mid-December and we’ve not seen a large shift in minority preferences yet. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/28 "2016-02-11T22:15:19Z")
The John Lewis endorsement is likely a game changer. And now we will see if things get ugly on the part of Sanders supporters. I hope not, but I fear otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/29 "2016-02-11T22:28:56Z")
If the response to a black leader endorsing Hillary is getting nasty with the black electorate, then Bernie has no chance of winning the nomination. The anger Bernie supporters direct at undecideds and Hillary supporters in general is a big turn off in my opinion. I’ve disclosed (and maybe my reputation establishes) I’m a conservative, more centrist these days than the Republican party (my views aside from on a few issues haven’t changed dramatically since the 80s, but the party is vastly more reactionary/conservative now–there were Pro-Choice Republicans back when I affiliated with the GOP), so idealogically I prefer Hillary to Bernie straight up. But even if I wasn’t a disaffected conservative who is pro-Hillary for anti-GOP reasons, and was more left leaning, the tactics being used by Bernie supporters would turn me off. It’s not “evil or wrong” to support Hillary Clinton, and I think Bernie supporters would do well to remember this is a Democratic Primary campaign, not a battle against the bourgeoisie in Weimar Germany. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/30 "2016-02-11T22:42:08Z")
One of my Facebook friends is now going on an absolute tear against John Lewis. A sample:" > [@](#): > > Maybe the congressman can now tie himself in rhetorical knots explaining what was so all-fired great about the Clintons’ crime bill, which helped fuel the mass incarceration the CBC so piously decries. Maybe he can also tell us why, when Bernie Sanders was marching with MLK, Hillary Clinton was supporting Barry Goldwater, who voted against the Civil Rights Act. Or why civil rights icon Bill Clinton had to throw Lani Guinier, Henry Foster and Joycelyn Elders under the bus when they became inconvenient. Or why Clinton went out of his way to publicly scold Jesse Jackson in 1992 and to minimize Barack Obama’s victory in the South Carolina primary in 2008. Or why Clinton so publicly left the campaign trail in 1992 to personally oversee the execution by lethal injection of Ricky Ray Rector, an African-American inmate so badly retarded that he put aside part of his last meal, a slice of pecan pie, to “save for later.” What a shame that John Lewis, such a hero to so many of us, has chosen to act this disgracefully in the twilight of his career. And this is a college-educated white dude with a white collar job, whitesplaining racism and civil rights to _John Lewis_. It’s really a facepalm. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/31 "2016-02-11T22:45:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The John Lewis endorsement is likely a game changer. And now we will see if things get ugly on the part of Sanders supporters. I hope not, but I fear otherwise. Wow. That’s a biggie. I just watched his interview from back in 08 describing how tough it was to flip to Obama from Clinton (“harder than the Selma march”). I believe he will go all in with this endorsement - I don’t think this is just ticking a box for him. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/32 "2016-02-11T22:49:38Z")
Social media is a mess on this. Some of those Bernie fans HAVE to be careful here. It’s one thing to go all on the offensive against Hillary Clinton, it is quite another thing to do so against John Lewis. There is literally no one still living that is more connected to the Civil Rights Movement than Lewis, and African-Americans have insane amounts of respect for the guy (maybe even more than they have for President Obama). ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/33 "2016-02-11T22:53:04Z")
My prediction: they won’t be careful. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/34 "2016-02-12T04:45:58Z")
Sanders did get Ben Jealous. That’s not nothing. As for Bernie fans whitesplaining to black voters, Democrats have taught liberals to richsplain that Democratic policies are in poor voters’ interests and that they should stop voting for Republicans, so why wouldn’t they carry the practice over to black voters? If poor white voters don’t know what’s good for them, in Democrats’ eyes, why would black voters be any better? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/35 "2016-02-12T04:58:50Z")
Yeah, it’s so terrible that the media is biased against George Paul. Don’t they know that Ron McGovern is the future? I’m sure his support is broad and deep and will take him all the way to the White House, where Congress will listen to all of his policies and fall all over themselves to implement them, just like his supporters know they will. Yes, the President sure wields awesome and unchallenged power in our system of government. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/36 "2016-02-12T05:50:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sanders did get Ben Jealous. That’s not nothing. > > As for Bernie fans whitesplaining to black voters, Democrats have taught liberals to richsplain that Democratic policies are in poor voters’ interests and that they should stop voting for Republicans, so why wouldn’t they carry the practice over to black voters? If poor white voters don’t know what’s good for them, in Democrats’ eyes, why would black voters be any better? Thanks for Repubsplainin’ that to us. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/37 "2016-02-12T06:06:16Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > OK, maybe it’s the wrong word. But I think the media have been, intentionally or not, subtly implying that Sanders is a big ol’ racist. Well, the standard liberal explanation for blacks not liking someone is that that person must be a racist, so what do you expect? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/38 "2016-02-12T07:08:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Thanks for Repubsplainin’ that to us. That’s not how the rules work. I’m one of those voters who is supposed to vote Democrat, so I’ve been splained to and I get to be mad. Sorry, it’s a whole new concept, the latest frontier in political correctness, so forgive me if I don’t fully understand it yet. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/39 "2016-02-12T15:19:21Z")
As a Democrat myself, I think **adaher** has a point. All the “What’s a Matter with Kansas” stuff just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth - you aren’t going to get people to vote for you by calling them dumb and explaining they aren’t voting for their _real_ interests which only we know. It’s a Sanders-like fallacy that economic concerns are the only ones that matter. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795/40 "2016-02-12T15:37:44Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > Well, the standard liberal explanation for blacks not liking someone is that that person must be a racist Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aw-its-adorable-democrats-learned-to-dog-whistle-bernies-white-support/745795.md?page=3)