# Awright, cheese eating surrender monkeys **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999 "2002-08-08T18:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/41 "2002-08-09T21:58:21Z")
not to mention the bombing/sinking of the Rainbow Warrior. Timed to coincided with a planned meeting of the Greenpeace leadership aboard. ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/42 "2002-08-09T22:05:24Z")
quick question: how many of you with your knickers in a twist get a kick out of the scenes in Holy Grail with the French people? Or do you sit there and get offended at the stereotyping? Just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Pucette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/278dde/32.png) [@Pucette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucette)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/43 "2002-08-09T22:17:16Z")
Aie aie aie. In the interest of maintaining my sanity, I am not going to get into a discussion about the validity of certain stereotypes. I will however mention a little something that **Oxy** may not have realized: that particular bookstore caters for the most part to schools and businesses, and much less so to the individual customer. While this in no way excuses the horrible service you received, it may help to explain why the place was a) vacant, and b) non acceuillant. Best of luck finding the books you are looking for! ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/44 "2002-08-09T23:48:34Z")
Now, the whole point of this little excursion was that I had already _checked_ my local Barnes & Noble, a fact that I ought to have mentioned. But in the end, CESM2 wasn’t entirely wrong: I finally remembered that the original, old, dumpy B & N on 5th and 18th (not 3 blocks from my office, grrr) includes a textbook department. It had both titles, which I duly bought. So **Pucette** ’s explanation makes sense. And perhaps it’s even a winning business plan, albeit without the most winning of staffs… Am now busy reading the following _Insider’s French_ entry: > [@](#): > > **Belgique** …Belgian eating habits, a Belgian accent, Belgian turns of phrase, and so on, are considered fair game. The height of humor is said to be _un histoire Belge_; the point is always to emphasize how stupid Belgians are. I am not making this up. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/45 "2002-08-10T00:44:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I am not making this up. Nope. That’s true. “histoires belges” are commonplace, here, like many other jokes related to many other nationalities in many other places. Some Belgians aren’t that pleased with the concept. But a difference is that Belgium and Belgian people aren’t disliked in France, nor stereotyped except in these jokes. I mean nobody believes that Belgians are actually stupid. Actually, the jokes are usually the same everywhere. Only the nationality targeted changes. For instance, the same joke will feature a Polish guy in country A, and a Portuguese guy in country B. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/46 "2002-08-10T02:53:19Z")
ummm… I seem to remember, late 70’s, maybe?, a national law being enacted in France (aimed, IIRC at commercial signs and ads, banning/restricting the use of an English word if an equivalent French word existed. anyone know if it was/is on the books? enforced? if mcdonalds doesn’t sell ‘hamburgers’, what does it sell in France? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/47 "2002-08-10T03:50:11Z")
> [@](#): > > if mcdonalds doesn’t sell ‘hamburgers’, what does it sell in France? Vincent: And you know what they call a… a… a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris? Jules: They don’t call it a Quarter Pounder with cheese? Vincent: No man, they got the metric system. They wouldn’t know what the fuck a Quarter Pounder is. Jules: Then what do they call it? Vincent: They call it a “Royale” with cheese. Jules: A “Royale” with cheese! What do they call a Big Mac? Vincent: A Big Mac’s a Big Mac, but they call it “le Big-Mac”. Jules: “Le Big-Mac”! Ha ha ha ha! What do they call a Whopper? Vincent: I dunno, I didn’t go into Burger King. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/48 "2002-08-10T04:25:20Z")
For Sale-Cheap 325,000 French Army rifles. Only thrown down once! Make offer. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/49 "2002-08-10T06:07:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I seem to remember, late 70’s, maybe?, a national law being enacted in France (aimed, IIRC at commercial signs and ads, banning/restricting the use of an English word if an equivalent French word existed. I think you might be confusing with language laws in Quebec. English words are very common in France. For instance a “Big Mac Value Meal” is called “Best of Bic Mac” in France. I doubt that would get through in Quebec, both legally and culturally. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/50 "2002-08-10T06:16:35Z")
I seem to remember something about the French gov’t requiring that anything written in English had to have French subtitles. They want to preserve their language, which is understandable, but why say _telecopier_ when you can say “fax”? I figure the best thing they can do is add a few new words every now and then to keep up with the times and not fade into the dust. What are the French doing in England? ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/51 "2002-08-10T06:31:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jovan \* > **Please. Explain this to me. Please. How is this moronic French typecasting any different from the (justly) loathed Jewish or say, Latino typecasting?** Because being Jewish or Latino puts a person in a race, whereas being French is just a a nationality? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/52 "2002-08-10T07:54:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Because being Jewish or Latino puts a person in a race, whereas being French is just a a nationality? Stellar reasoning. Really. However, since English is not my mother tongue, I’m not so sure what you mean by “race”. So, if I understand: Juan Pedro is lazy, but then again it figures, he’s latino. -\> Racial stereotyping -\> Bad. Jean-Pierre is insufferable, but then again it figures, he’s French. -\> National stereotyping -\> OK. To me, these two statements seem equivalent. However, who knows, you might be using German Logic, in which case I suppose I have no choice but to surrender. You win. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/53 "2002-08-10T13:11:09Z")
[quote] I seem to remember, late 70’s, maybe?, a national law being enacted in France (aimed, IIRC at commercial signs and ads, banning/restricting the use of an English word if an equivalent French word existed. [quote] AFAIK, if a _foreign_ word or sentence appears on a product, or in an ad, it must be translated. It’s enforced. Usually, when it’s part of a slogan (usually for some mass consumption international product, say chewing gum or shoes) the translation appear in minuscules characters at the bottom of the add. On TV, the translation appears as a subtitle. It seems to me it’s a basic necessity to make sure that the consumer can understand an ad, can check the composition of the food he bought or is able to figure out how his new washing machine works. Not sure why you find this law noticeable. As for “big mac” : it doesn’t contradict this law. It’s the name of the product itself. You can call a product in any way you want, there’s no language/ understanding issue, there. Concerning the fax/telecopieur : both words are used. Not sure once again why you’re surprised there’s a french word for various equipments. A computer isn’t called a computer in french, either, and a car isn’t called a car…so what’s the issue exactly? Me think the issue is on your side here. I’m wondering why some people think it’s weird that french law requires a label to be printed in french or that french people actually use french words. What do you expect exactly? As for the “latinos”. Is there somewhere else than north america where “latino” is considered a race? It seems more related to a geographical origin or a language thing than anything else, IMO… ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/54 "2002-08-10T14:48:57Z")
I’m calmer now, and I apologise if any of my earlier comments were over the top. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > \*\*Wait, wait, so **Oxy** gets shat upon in his attempt to y’know, _buy books that a store actually sells_, and it’s his fault that he’s pissed at the French? \*\* Well, yeah, because “the French” don’t actually enter into any of it, do they? Or does this store have an unusually large counter staff? ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/55 "2002-08-10T21:02:33Z")
I find it bizarre that the national government feels the language to be threatened by common, international terms. in the US, the term is ‘garage’, not ‘car park’, we (at least a few still) eat sushi, etc. I have seen shops with little or no english in their signage. I do not feel the (English) language is threatened, and certainly the federal gov’t need not involve itself. I consider this another of those “you lost, get over it (and yourselves)” issues. French (prior to WWI (I think) was the international language of diplomacy. After two world wars and Dien Bien Phu, US english replaced it. again, get over it. and, just for giggles - what is the translation for ‘hamburger’? is it really too much to ask the french to learn ‘hamburger’? ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/56 "2002-08-10T22:32:45Z")
Even if every other stereotype about the French were true, I’m pretty tired of the lame “surrendering” jokes. Over 90,000 French soldiers died trying to hold back the blitzkrieg; it’s not their fault they were invaded by an overwhelmingly powerful enemy. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/57 "2002-08-10T23:05:48Z")
Ummmm… who’s fault was it that they build the Maginet Line instaet of spending the money on usuable equipment? ---
**Author:** ![LCP2972](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@LCP2972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LCP2972)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/58 "2002-08-10T23:33:02Z")
I find it absurd and eogtistically paraniod to quite an extreme that any country would enact laws enforcing the use of one language or another. I know its happend(sort of) here, but not to the extent that it seems from posts in this thread that two of the French officialities have (Quebec and France herself) have taken it. I like cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/59 "2002-08-11T00:02:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OxyMoron \* > \*\*Am now busy reading the following _Insider’s French_ entry: > > > [@](#): > > > > Belgique…Belgian eating habits, a Belgian accent, Belgian turns of phrase, and so on, are considered fair game. The height of humor is said to be un histoire Belge; the point is always to emphasize how stupid Belgians are. > > I am not making this up. \*\* Dude, if you want to protect the poor Belgians, attack the Dutch. They’re _much_ harsher towards the Belgians than the French will ever be. And it’s all in good fun, believe it or not. We get our share back in spades. Look, Europe is -in general- not as PC as North America is. We often make fun using national stereotypes, and most of it is just plain fun. As for the reputation the French have: I have mixed experiences. Parisians can be a tad snippy to tourists, even if they do speak French. I once got corrected on my grammar by a fucking ticket booth operator in the Metro, after asking her the shortest route to St. Michel. What’s a man to do? Well, curse at her in fluent Dutch, that’s what. Are all Parisians like this? No. Are all French people like this? Not remotely. Go to the south of France, to the Hautes Alpes, the Biskayan Gulf, the small villages in the Provence. You’ll be treated like a king. As for the surrender thing: it’s just as funny as calling all Germans Nazis. You do the math. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/60 "2002-08-11T00:10:46Z")
> [@](#): > > and, just for giggles - what is the translation for ‘hamburger’? is it really too much to ask the french to learn ‘hamburger’? The translation for “hamburger” is “hamburger”. And I see no reason why french people should learn a foreign word instead of using a french word. Is it too much to ask the americans to learn “frites” instead of insisting on using “french fries”? As for the “get over it” issue, most french people aren’t even aware that french used to be the diplomatic language. Reading american boards, it looks like this knowledge is more widespread in the US than it is in France (I don’t think it actually the case, but I see this so often mentionned that one has to wonder…). For some reason, some american people seem to be obsessed with the way french language is used in France (or with France in general, as it’s easy to notice, even on this board). French people speak french and aren’t going to speak english anytime soon, and aren’t going to use an english word instead of a french one just because you think, for whatever reason I can’t understand, that they should. Get over it yourself. (And I notice by the way you conveniently forgot the “consumer’s rights” part when you refered to the “absurd law enforcing the use of a language”) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999.md?page=4)