# Awright, cheese eating surrender monkeys **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999 "2002-08-08T18:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/61 "2002-08-11T00:15:34Z")
and the FF numbered how many? (prior to the allied liberation of the arrogant little country - after the war, simply EVERYONE had been FF, much like no german ever liked hitler or knew what was going on in the camps (equally credible assertions)). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/62 "2002-08-11T00:23:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wikkit \* > \*\*Because being Jewish or Latino puts a person in a race, whereas being French is just a a nationality? \*\* I always thought that Jews were classified in the “white” race and Latino refers to a spanish linguistic group located south of Texas and Florida. I don’t understand how you get a specific race from that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/63 "2002-08-11T00:35:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Ummmm… who’s fault was it that they build the Maginet Line instaet of spending the money on usuable equipment Too bad you weren’t a high ranking french general in 1939, genius. History would have been different. Too bad also that they are all dead, or you could have exposed your opinion to my great uncles killed during the war, to my grand father who avoided to be hanged like his friend were because he decided to go fishing on an early morning, or to my father (I’m a late child) who ended the war in a concentration camp for sabotages commited in german territory. But of course, since I assume you’re a war veteran (who else could comment on this?), you’re certainly in a position to make judgments. Perhaps you should yourself get over it, once again. Nor me nor you (most probably) were involved in any way in WWII events. You should spot congratulating yourself (or blaming others) for what our grand fathers did or didn’t (and most likely, even they had no say in what happened, except if your family name is “Roosevelt”). ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/64 "2002-08-11T00:49:18Z")
Well Claire, the war’s not over for a lot of people, from the looks of it. You’re dead right, though. That whole “if it weren’t for us, you’d all be speaking German” attitude is sickening. If a true liberator crosses my path, I’ll thank them profusely for liberating my country. If some 20-something punk thinks he deserves credibility and respect solely because of the country he happened to be born in 30 years after D-Day, he can go fuck himself. ---
**Author:** ![LCP2972](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@LCP2972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LCP2972)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/65 "2002-08-11T01:08:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\* > The translation for “hamburger” is “hamburger”. > (snip) > > (And I notice by the way you conveniently forgot the “consumer’s rights” part when you refered to the “absurd law enforcing the use of a language”) \*\* you’re farting in the general direction of two different folks here, mon frere, I was the one protesting the enforcement of language by ANY government, it was happyheathen asking about the burgers. I would like to learn more about this “consumer’s rights” part, what are you refering to? and how are a consumer’s rights infringed upon by calling a french fry a frite or vise versa? ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/66 "2002-08-11T01:29:53Z")
yes, it is unfortunate that none of the French military planners realized that the krauts (it’s OK - my surname is kraut, so I get to use the term) might do something other than a frontal attack on a fortified line (were the gun really incapable of firing onto French soil? that is really incredible!) and yes, I never denied the existance of the FF, nor did I belittle its members. I merely pointed out that they were a small minority, and, therefore, the charge of surrender DID fit the country and the vast majority of its inhabitants. the point of French complicity in the “final solution” has already been made. and, yes, you probably would have learned German - how long the empire could have been maintained, I’ve no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/67 "2002-08-11T01:35:23Z")
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is constructive in a discussion about the current population of France? Give me a fucking break. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/68 "2002-08-11T01:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > and the FF numbered how many? For the free french (enlisted/drafted in the reconstitued french army) : -1940 : 6 000 -1943 : 60 000 -1945 : 550 000 (including 350 000 colonials, half european french citizens living in colonies, mostly Algeria, half locals) For the resistance, the figures are basically unknown. For instance, the estimates in 1943 vary between 10 000 and 130 000. The numbers indeed increased dramatically in 1944 and especially after the D-Day (three or four times more in july 1944 than in march 1944). 110 000 people were arrested or deported for acts of resistance (alternately called “sabotage” or “terrorism”) during the war (or at least were latter registered as such after the war…I know from personnal experience that some refused to “beg” to be registered as such. Most probably others managed to do it while actually they were arrested/deported for other reasons). As for the death toll, an estimate I found : Military KIA in 1939-1940 : 120 000 Prisonners dead in camps : 45 000 “Free french” KIA : 45 000 Resistants KIA : 10 000 Civilians killed in bombings or during military operations : 130 000 Civilians executed (mostly hostages) : 30 000 Civilian victims of massacres : 20 000 Dead in concentration camps : 220 000 (including 80 000 Jews) For a total of 620 000 dead (220 000 military, 400 000 civilians). Another estimate gives 330 000 civilians (amongst them 180 000 deported) and 210 000 military for a total of 540 000. I’m sure these 500 000 or 600 000 people would have been happy to know they would be latter called “cheese eater surrendering monkeys”. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/69 "2002-08-11T01:41:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I would like to learn more about this “consumer’s rights” part, what are you refering to? and how are a consumer’s rights infringed upon by calling a french fry a frite or vise versa? Read my previous post about the law requiring the use of french (or a translation) on ads, labels, etc… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/70 "2002-08-11T01:47:28Z")
> [@](#): > > yes, it is unfortunate that none of the French military planners realized that the krauts (it’s OK - my surname is kraut, so I get to use the term) might do something other than a frontal attack on a fortified line (were the gun really incapable of firing onto French soil? that is really incredible!) This is ridiculous. Of course the allied command expected an attack through Belgium. That’s precisely why all the armies where massed at the Belgian border and were surrounded. They didn’t expected it in the Ardennes, which were supposed to be mostly impassable, nor they did expect a very quickly moving ennemy (blitzkrieg). The maginot line wasn’t extented along the Belgian boundary mostly for diplomatical reasons (the Belgians didn’t like at all the concept, since it would have meant that the French would probably not have tried too hard to fight in Belgium in case of German invasion) and because it was very costly. ---
**Author:** ![LCP2972](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@LCP2972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LCP2972)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/71 "2002-08-11T01:49:47Z")
I read it, it just doesnt make a lot of sense to me, just looking for a little enlightenment as to why you feel this is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/72 "2002-08-11T02:04:05Z")
> [@](#): > > (it’s OK - my surname is kraut, so I get to use the term) No you fucking well don’t. What the flaming devil with a fork in his ass is up in here? The amount of offensive stereotyping and semi-bigoted blabber defies belief. Happyheathen, maybe you should reconsider your positions a little and try to work out some factual basis for your stance instead of spouting facile venom in the general direction of our continent and the specific direction of clairobscure’s country of origin and the place I called home all my childhood. Get a fucking grip of yourself Sparc ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/73 "2002-08-11T02:05:28Z")
It seems to me it’s quite obvious : people must be able to undestand clearly what they’re promised in an ad, must be able to know what are the products used in the canned food they just bought, must be able to have the intructions for operating their brand new computer in a language they understand, must be able to know exactly what are the guarantees offered, etc… ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/74 "2002-08-11T02:47:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\*It seems to me it’s quite obvious : people must be able to undestand clearly what they’re promised in an ad, must be able to know what are the products used in the canned food they just bought, must be able to have the intructions for operating their brand new computer in a language they understand, must be able to know exactly what are the guarantees offered, etc… \*\* and this need extends to a TV commercial?! Sorry, no sale here. and most products requiring specific instructions, are, where I live, are readily available in English, Spanish, French, German, Chinese and Japanese (and sometime Tagalog). I have VCD’s from Malaysia - they contain ads for Phillips DVD players in a language I do not recognise. Would it be illegal to sell these VCD’s in France without dubbing/subscripting the ads? To what absurdities is this taken? Does it beat Quebec’s law requiring that the French-language signage be three times larger than the accompaning English-language signage? and **Sparc** - yes I do. the rule is that you can insult your own ethnic/racial/religious/political background. get over it. if I have said something which is not factual in nature, pls point it out. until then, shut up. thank you. p.s. I am also part Irish. be forewarned. ---
**Author:** ![LCP2972](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@LCP2972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LCP2972)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/75 "2002-08-11T03:02:19Z")
ok, I can see what you’re getting at, thank you for the clarification. I was under the impression that the legalism involved was forcing the products to go by something other than the original product name, ie, the french translation or original french word relating to said product. I can understand and support the labelling of product’s ingredients in the native language of the country they are being sold in. What I take issue with is the legislation of language in regards to the names of things or products, a subtle difference, maybe. so, I’ve lost track now, are we arguing or syaing similar things differently? on another note, in an semi-anonymous environment as this, (maybe HERE especially) I think the bashing of any race/ethnicity/religion(other than frekaed out fundies)/physical impairment/whathave you is going to get taken less than lightly, just an observation I have irish ancestors and german ones too, and didnt take any offense, but I would expect that someone will. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/76 "2002-08-11T03:19:33Z")
> [@](#): > > and Sparc - yes I do. the rule is that you can insult your own ethnic/racial/religious/political background. get over it. By that brilliant piece of logic I can now go ahead and use the N word and tell everyone who is offended to piss of, since I am out of Africa originally, yes? Did I miss something here? Are you German? Have you even been German at some point in your life? My ancestors were as well and I live in Germany at present time. I speak, eat and live German - yet I do not afford myself the right to brandy stereotypic insults at my follow human beings who happen to be far more German than me. > [@](#): > > if I have said something which is not factual in nature, pls point it out. until then, shut up. thank you. clairobscur is doing a splendid job at exposing your skewed facts and awkward, offensive conclusions. Meanwhile I shall reserve the right to speak as I please and of what I please. Presently I wish to speak of you, and hence I shall do at my own discretion. > [@](#): > > p.s. I am also part Irish. be forewarned. I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass to know where your ancestors fornicated in order to bring me to the doubtful pleasure of seeing you spout insults and accusations that are not yours to bring. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/77 "2002-08-11T03:26:47Z")
> [@](#): > > and this need extends to a TV commercial?! Sorry, no sale here. What’s the difference between TV ads and other ads, exactly? Anyway, on TV, english language only appears in slogans for some mass consumption products, as I already wrote (like say, Nike) > [@](#): > > and most products requiring specific instructions, are, where I live, are readily available in English, Spanish, French, German, Chinese and Japanese (and sometime Tagalog). Here too. What’s your point, exactly? > [@](#): > > I have VCD’s from Malaysia - they contain ads for Phillips DVD players in a language I do not recognise. > > Would it be illegal to sell these VCD’s in France without dubbing/subscripting the ads? I don’t know. Possibly it’s technically illegal. But I bought CDs with ads in a foreign language. > [@](#): > > To what absurdities is this taken? Does it beat Quebec’s law requiring that the French-language signage be three times larger than the accompaning English-language signage? You really like bashing, eh? Actually, the translation in ads is usually in tiny characters at the bottom of the ads, as I already wrote, once again. You could notice it for instance with ads in the Paris subway which target tourists during the summer (for Disneyland Paris, or for some department store, for instance). And they aren’t necessarily in english, though you seem obsessed with english. There are spanish-speaking tourists, too… And contrarily to Canada, France isn’t a bilingual country, in case you wouldn’t know. > [@](#): > > and Sparc - yes I do. the rule is that you can insult your own ethnic/racial/religious/political background. get over it. Then I assume you’re german? Where do you live exactly? Where were you born and where did you grow up? [/quote] if I have said something which is not factual in nature, pls point it out. until then, shut up. thank you. [/quote] Actually, you didn’t say anything which isn’t factual, but you didn’t say anything factual, either. You merely spat out broad prejudiced and ignorant statements. p.s. I am also part Irish. be forewarned ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/78 "2002-08-11T03:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > and this need extends to a TV commercial?! Sorry, no sale here. What’s the difference between TV ads and other ads, exactly? Anyway, on TV, english language only appears in slogans for some mass consumption products, as I already wrote (like say, Nike) > [@](#): > > and most products requiring specific instructions, are, where I live, are readily available in English, Spanish, French, German, Chinese and Japanese (and sometime Tagalog). Here too. What’s your point, exactly? > [@](#): > > I have VCD’s from Malaysia - they contain ads for Phillips DVD players in a language I do not recognise. > > Would it be illegal to sell these VCD’s in France without dubbing/subscripting the ads? I don’t know. Possibly it’s technically illegal. But I bought CDs with ads in a foreign language. > [@](#): > > To what absurdities is this taken? Does it beat Quebec’s law requiring that the French-language signage be three times larger than the accompaning English-language signage? You really like bashing, eh? Actually, the translation in ads is usually in tiny characters at the bottom of the ads, as I already wrote, once again. You could notice it for instance with ads in the Paris subway which target tourists during the summer (for Disneyland Paris, or for some department store, for instance). And they aren’t necessarily in english, though you seem obsessed with english. There are spanish-speaking tourists, too… And contrarily to Canada, France isn’t a bilingual country, in case you wouldn’t know. > [@](#): > > and Sparc - yes I do. the rule is that you can insult your own ethnic/racial/religious/political background. get over it. Then I assume you’re german? Where do you live exactly? Where were you born and where did you grow up? [/quote] if I have said something which is not factual in nature, pls point it out. until then, shut up. thank you. [/quote] Actually, you didn’t say anything which isn’t factual, but you didn’t say anything factual, either. You merely spat out broad prejudiced and ignorant statements. > [@](#): > > p.s. I am also part Irish. be forewarned I’m pleased to know you lived in so many different places. Are you american too, by chance? ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/79 "2002-08-11T03:32:13Z")
I take it that proper nouns are exempt - if White Castle ever opened a store in Paris, the name would not have to be translated. Most of their menu would have to be, but the name could, legally remain the same. my point is that this law seems to say “foreign language bad. French language only good language”. I find a legal requirement to _force_ translations which the seller deems unnecessary to be arrogant. Does the government really think the language and culture will die unless vigorously defended by the national govt.? If a US movie is shown, and a character is wearing a tee shirt with the name of a band/designer/college on it, would a subtitle be required to translate the friggin’ shirt? and, let’s not get started on the French law… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2002, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999/80 "2002-08-11T03:35:07Z")
> [@](#): > > and this need extends to a TV commercial?! Sorry, no sale here. What’s the difference between TV ads and other ads, exactly? Anyway, on TV, english language only appears in slogans for some mass consumption products, as I already wrote (like say, Nike) > [@](#): > > and most products requiring specific instructions, are, where I live, are readily available in English, Spanish, French, German, Chinese and Japanese (and sometime Tagalog). Here too. What’s your point, exactly? > [@](#): > > I have VCD’s from Malaysia - they contain ads for Phillips DVD players in a language I do not recognise. > > Would it be illegal to sell these VCD’s in France without dubbing/subscripting the ads? I don’t know. Possibly it’s technically illegal. But I bought CDs with ads in a foreign language. > [@](#): > > To what absurdities is this taken? Does it beat Quebec’s law requiring that the French-language signage be three times larger than the accompaning English-language signage? You really like bashing, eh? Actually, the translation in ads is usually in tiny characters at the bottom of the ads, as I already wrote, once again. You could notice it for instance with ads in the Paris subway which target tourists during the summer (for Disneyland Paris, or for some department store, for instance). And they aren’t necessarily in english, though you seem obsessed with english. There are spanish-speaking tourists, too… And contrarily to Canada, France isn’t a bilingual country, in case you wouldn’t know. > [@](#): > > and Sparc - yes I do. the rule is that you can insult your own ethnic/racial/religious/political background. get over it. Then I assume you’re german? Where do you live exactly? Where were you born and where did you grow up? [/quote] if I have said something which is not factual in nature, pls point it out. until then, shut up. thank you. [/quote] Actually, you didn’t say anything which isn’t factual, but you didn’t say anything factual, either. You merely spat out broad prejudiced and ignorant statements. > [@](#): > > p.s. I am also part Irish. be forewarned I’m pleased to know you lived in so many different places. Are you american too, by chance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awright-cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys/122999.md?page=5)