# Awwright I give up awready. What's a diva? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2000, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813 "2000-01-04T00:36:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/1 "2000-01-04T00:36:00Z")
I hear this term thrown around all the time. Merriam-Webster was no help. A goddess? A goddess of what? I thought a diva was a singer of a specific kind of music, since I saw the movie _Diva_ and can’t remember the music. Since then nearly every famous female has been referred to as a diva at least once. En Vogue even came out with an album called _Funky Divas_ if I remember correctly. This indicates that they are the patron deities of strong odors. I wouldna thought you’d need more than one. So really, does “diva” mean something other than “female celebrity”? Is Donna Shalala a diva? Sarah Ferguson? Martha Stewart? * * * - Boris B, Hellacious Ornithologist ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/2 "2000-01-04T00:46:00Z")
In the world of opera, a _diva_ is the principal female singer of a company… not just the lead in a particular production, but the leading lady of the company, almost always cast as the female lead in whatever production is underway. Because certain personality traits stereotypically seem to attach themselves to persons occupying this coveted position, a secondary meaning is _an extremely vain, sensitive, or conceited individual_. So one may literally _be_ a diva, which is a noteworthy accomplishment, or one may merely _act_ like a diva, which garners no praise at all. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/3 "2000-01-04T03:20:00Z")
Am I supposed to answer this? 🙂 your humble TubaDiva ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/4 "2000-01-04T04:20:00Z")
I always thought that diva was the third declension neter plural of sofa. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/5 "2000-01-04T04:21:00Z")
**Deva** _(day-vuh)_ God, Goddess - Sanskrit An early root word of proto-Indo-European languages, now seen in words like _divine_ etc. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/6 "2000-01-04T04:21:00Z")
ne **u** ter plural ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/7 "2000-01-04T04:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So one may **literally** be a diva ## I don’t think so. One may be called a diva, an amazingly hyperbolic title that only the bizarre world of opera could come up with, but actually **be** one? I thought of a clever new sig line last night, but I forgot it when I woke up this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/8 "2000-01-04T04:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think so. One may be called a diva, an amazingly hyperbolic title that only the bizarre world of opera could come up with, but actually **be** one? I beg your pardon, but I believe you are mistaken. A diva is, quite literally, the prima donna – that is, the first lady of the company. Both _diva_ and _prima donna_ are terms that have acquired secondary, hyperbolic, and most certainly perjorative meanings associated with the negative traits apparently exhibited by the women upon whom this honor is conferred. However, I stand by my original point: that it is quite possible to literally be a diva, simply by being the leading lady of a particular opera company. To confirm this, I have checked the on-line [dictionary](http://www.m-w.com) operated by Merriam-Webster. They define _diva_ as a synonym for _prima donna_, and define _prima donna_ as “1 : a principal female singer in an opera or concert organization; 2 : an extremely sensitive, vain, or undisciplined person.” - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/9 "2000-01-04T04:58:00Z")
so our humble TubaDiva must be a real virtuosa on the tuba, since the secondary meaning obviously does not apply. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/10 "2000-01-04T13:03:00Z")
In the _nice_ sense, it means someone who commands respect. Aretha Franklin, for example. In the _street_ sense, it means a bitch. Mariah Carey, for example. Clear as mud? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/11 "2000-01-04T13:37:00Z")
A diva is a person in Boston who leaps from a springboard headfirst into a swimming pool. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/12 "2000-01-04T15:15:00Z")
Well, I watched a little bit of VH1 last night, and found the answer to your question. Apparently, a diva is [gag reflex]Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Brandy, or Leanne Rhymes [/gag reflex] ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/13 "2000-01-04T17:34:00Z")
**Bricker** – My disagreement is not over whether opera singers are called divas, it is over what the word _literally_ means. If you described me as a baboon, you could be referring to any number of character traits you dislike in me. But if you said that I was **literally** a baboon you would be stating that I was actually, truly a member of a species of primates that live in Africa. So for someone to **literally** be a diva they would have to truly, actually be a goddess. I’m not disagreeing that the best opera singers are deserving of high praise, but I don’t know of any that are actually deities. ## I do find the title a little, um, inflated, but the world of opera is a different world, one that I’m not a part of. Call them divas if you like but don’t insist they are **literally** divas. I thought of a clever new sig line last night, but I forgot it when I woke up this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2000, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/14 "2000-01-05T06:27:00Z")
Pluto: I think that the confusion here rests on both the meaning of the word _literally_ and of the word _diva_. I would note, parenthetically, that you **are** a member of a species of primates that live in Africa. I certainly agree that you are not literally a baboon, of course. If the only meaning of “diva” is “goddess,” and opera culture had chosen to call their leading ladies divas because of that, then I would agree completely with you. But – as you might expect, I don’t agree with that premise. The **origin** of the word is different than its meaning; while it derives from the feminine form of _divus_, from which we also get _divine_, the **current, preferred meaning** of the word is “a leading woman singer, esp. in opera” (Webster’s New World Dictionary, Second College Edition). I contend that since the plain meaning of the word is “a leading woman singer,” we are perfectly entitled to claim that someone is, literally, a leading woman singer, and, therefore, literally, a diva. Does my argument fail on the meaning of _literally_? Literally means “word for word; not imaginatively or figuratively,” (ibid). There is, then, no figure of speech used in describing a leading woman singer as a diva, since that is the plain and ordinary meaning of the word. Cheers, Rick ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2000, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/15 "2000-01-05T06:58:00Z")
I’ll stop arguing, even though I’m right! 🙂 I see your point. In fact, I saw your point right off the bat but I still feel that using the term _literally_ forces us back to the original meaning of the word. However, I think we’ve reached a fine point of usage and can agree to disagree with honor on both sides. My college English professor used an example where a writer described a group of spectators who “literally flooded the field”. I thought that was a pretty good one. I am chagrined that I used a definition of baboon that didn’t exclude my own personal species. I started to mention tails and muzzles but I edited the sentence on the fly and you saw the result. I should have said an African primate _that is not a chimpanzee_! * * * He that questioneth much shall learn much, and content much; but especially if he apply his questions to the skill of the persons whom he asketh; for he shall give them occasion to please themselves in speaking, and himself shall continually gather knowledge. But let his questions not be troublesome, for that is fit for a poser; and let him be sure to leave other men their turns to speak. Francis Bacon ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/16 "2000-01-04T19:18:00Z")
LOL! Well, fortunately for me, you stopped just before I ran out of arguments! 🙂 I agree with your professor (unless the spectators had bladder control problems _en masse_) that the spectators did not literally flood the field. And it’s very true that literally is often used as emphasis when it has no business being in the sentence. In this instance, though, I felt confident that literally was… er… literally correct. 🙂 Cheers, Rick ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/17 "2000-01-04T19:28:00Z")
I thought a diva was an Italian pervert? * * * Elmer J. Fudd, Millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht. ---
**Author:** ![aviddiva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aviddiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aviddiva)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/18 "2000-01-04T19:42:00Z")
Well, I guess I had better weigh in here. I picked the “title” because I liked it: I like the overblown hyperbole of it, and thought it was fitting for an online message board in which people refer to themselves variously as Satan, the smallest planet in our solar system or Goofy’s dog, GodlyGuy, Archangel, Homer (Simpson, I hope), or a bitchin’ Cary Grant character. I also like palindromes, and owe this particular one to Bill Richardson, B.C. author and CBC radio host, who suggested it in his excellent _Scorned and Beloved: Dead of Winter Meetings with Canadian Eccentrics_, (1998). PunditLisa: > [@](#): > > In the _nice_ sense, it means someone who commands respect. Aretha Franklin, for example. > > In the _street_ sense, it means a bitch. Mariah Carey, for example. Except for any similarities to Mariah Carey (who looks like nothing so much as a slutty carebear on her newest cd cover), I aspire to both designations. ## And remember, dictionaries _describe_ the ways we use words/language; their job is not to _prescribe_ or _proscribe_ various uses or meanings. If enough people agree a word means something, that’s what it means, and next year’s dictionary will record that. …a ham, a jar, a maharaja. ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/19 "2000-01-04T20:08:00Z")
Hey avid, I like your sig line, but I can’t tell if it’s a joke palindrome, like Bolton. Who’s the Carey Grant character and who’s he bitchin’ at? (Only the first part of that question was serious.) ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2000, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813/20 "2000-01-04T20:12:00Z")
C.K. Dexter Haven was the Cary Grant character in THE PHILADELPHIA STORY. You have to say it in a drunk Jimmy Stewart voice for the full effect…“Seee…Kay…Deskter…Haven.” * * * Uke [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awwright-i-give-up-awready-whats-a-diva/5813.md?page=2)