# Awww ... that's a shame **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207 "2001-10-08T23:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/41 "2001-10-09T14:13:25Z")
And no, this isn’t racial, it’s philosophical. If radical Christians were running a tyrannical state, and the rest of Christendom said nothing, I’d have the same objections. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/42 "2001-10-09T14:18:07Z")
> [@](#): > > why there is no Arab movement for peace with Israel? that’s a good way to get killed… > [@](#): > > why the Pakistani rioters don’t say that OBL’s acts do not represent Islam? that’s a good way to get killed… > [@](#): > > why the various mullahs and imams don’t excommunicate OBL and the Taliban? that’s a good way to get killed… You see the pattern yet? There is always a small percentage of wacko’s that ruin it for everyone, but in Islam’s case, they will blow themselves up when the blow you up.(the wackos, that is…) ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/43 "2001-10-09T14:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **When I ask about "peacful Muslims, I want to know… > why the Pakistani rioters don’t say that OBL’s acts do not represent Islam?** Many Pakistani people do say that, I have heard them say it in person and I have heard them say it on CNN. The Pakistani **rioters** , however, don’t say it because they either believe that Usama bin Laden’s actions do represent Islam, or they don’t care. Personally, I feel that it is the latter reason in most cases. The population of Pakistan consists mainly of uneducated people, some of whom unfortunately look on riots as a form of entertainment. Believe it or not, similar riots occur quite frequently around events related to domestic politics and which have nothing to do with Islam or the United States. > [@](#): > > **why the various mullahs and imams don’t excommunicate OBL and the Taliban?** This concept does not exist in Islam. > [@](#): > > **Why, when Muslim activists demand an Islamic state, it results in thieves’hands being amputated and unveiled women being stoned to death?** This is an extremist Islamic state. There are many Islamic states in which women can wear whatever they want. > [@](#): > > **why the citizens of Arab nations are unable to differentiate between a war on the Taliban and a war on Islam?** Most citizens of Arab nations can and do differentiate between the two. Maybe the reason some of them can’t is precisely because what you read in the paper and see on TV leads you to believe that “Muslims, by and large, are a pack of bloodthirsty barbarians”. Personally I don’t think that this is a war against Islam but when I read statements like that I can’t help but wonder… ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/44 "2001-10-09T14:21:53Z")
Saith my friend Greg, upon seeing the picture: “Holy living shit.” Was that flag made of, like, gasoline or something? Because I’m not used to seeing those things flare up like that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/45 "2001-10-09T14:23:29Z")
IT’S NOT IRONY!!! Irony is the act of saying one thing while meaning it’s exact opposite! ARGH!!! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/46 "2001-10-09T14:29:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*IT’S NOT IRONY!!! > > Irony is the act of saying one thing while meaning it’s exact opposite! > > ARGH!!! \*\* Are you sure: “He tried to burn the flag, but the flag burned him” is attempting one thing while achieving it’s exact opposite. Irony (as far as I know) isn’t limited to speech. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/47 "2001-10-09T14:31:29Z")
Well, of course, there is a Muslim “peace movement”. The are visited with the contempt of thier fellows, hard-headed realists who disdain the wishy-washy liberalism of “peace-creeps”. “Well, of course, nobody _likes_ terrorism, but these Americans have no respect for human life!” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/48 "2001-10-09T14:32:47Z")
I can’t help but notice that in the picture of the guy setting himsef on fire, some of the other protestors appear to be laughing at him. Maybe he was the local asshole or something. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*IT’S NOT IRONY!!! > > Irony is the act of saying one thing while meaning it’s exact opposite! > > ARGH!!! \*\* Argh, indeed. You need a lesson from my ninth grade English teacher Mrs. Gazely, because you, my son, are woefully underinformed on just what irony is. There are many types of irony besides just “saying one thing and meaning another” including - An incongruity between the result of a sequence of events and what was expected (which makes some of Ms. Morrisette’s scenarios irony.) - Dramatic or tragic irony, in which the characters in a story are unaware of ironic aspects of their situation that the audience is aware of. - A pretense of ignorance in the course of intellectual exchange for the purpose of interrogative questioning, esp. to reveal holes in another person’s argument (Socratic irony.) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/49 "2001-10-09T14:40:41Z")
I don’t want to believe that Muslims are so barbaric; i’d like to believe that the differences between them and us are mere misunderstandings, but I can’t disregard what even the Qatari news service, al-Jazeera, shows. > [@](#): > > Believe it or not, similar riots occur quite frequently around events related to domestic politics and which have nothing to do with Islam or the United States I’m hip to the troubles with the Mohajars and the MQM, but that’s Pakistan’s problem. > [@](#): > > This is an extremist Islamic state. There are many Islamic states in which women can wear whatever they want That depends on how you define “Islamic state.” Is it juist any nation where the official religion is Islam, or is it where religious law is strictly enforced? Malaysia and Saudi Arabia are both nations where the populace is predominantly Muslim, but one is more pluralist than the other. Are they both Islamic states? > [@](#): > > Most citizens of Arab nations can and do differentiate between the two They why don’t we hear it from the Arabic press? They seem bound and determined to make this a war on Islam. I have no desire to pick on Islam; I find much of what I read about it very attractive. However, there seems to be a distinct disconnect between the peace and submission of the Muslim soul to God and the howling mobs who want to kill me and my people in God’s name. ---
**Author:** ![rushtopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@rushtopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rushtopher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/50 "2001-10-09T14:42:09Z")
Is it just me, or does the Taliban seem to have more supporters in Pakistan than in Afghanistan (sp?)? It seems to me that if the citizens of a country, such as Afgan…, are leaving in mass ( and they have been before this event) it is likely a sign that the government isn’t too grand. Just a thought to the millions of Pakistani Rioters that read the Straight Dope every day. [SUB]Just so I say it first… Pakistani Rioters…BAND NAME![/SUB] ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/51 "2001-10-09T14:55:50Z")
**gobear** , I don’t read the Arabic press because my Arabic isn’t fluent enough. Dawn, which is one of the three most highly reputed Pakistani newspapers, is online at [http://www.dawn.com](http://www.dawn.com). I have no problem with generalisation, I would even go so far as to say that I think Pakistani people are more prone to bloodthirstiness than, let’s see, Canadians, but I don’t think that this is due to the predominant religion in Pakistan. The most bloodthirsty period in the history of the country was at its inception in 1947, and the Hindus of that time seem to have been equally bloodthirsty. So I’d prefer to call it a cultural or a geographic thing… there is a theory somewhere that people in warmer climates tend to be more bloodthirsty, I’ll look for it… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/52 "2001-10-09T15:20:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I have no problem with generalisation, I would even go so far as to say that I think Pakistani people are more prone to bloodthirstiness than, let’s see, Canadians, Well, if you’ve ever watched a hockey game, you might question that. 🙂 I don’t wish to genralize, but I wish the moderate Muslim elements would seize control of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/53 "2001-10-09T15:33:42Z")
I wish they would too! I can think of two possible reasons why they don’t. First of all, the wealthier Muslims tend to have property abroad, or skills which would enable them to apply for a work visa abroad, so they think that they have an alternative in case Taliban-like elements take over. Secondly, the peaceful Muslims in Pakistan (I don’t know whether this is true in Arab countries) tend to have quite a fatalistic mentality. When things go wrong (as in a military coup, a war with India, international sanctions, possibly the third world war) they tend to say, “It’s the will of God” or “It’s our fate”. I hate this laissez-faire attitude!! ---
**Author:** ![Macro\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Macro\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macro_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/54 "2001-10-09T21:35:47Z")
May I be the first to say… WELL DONE!!! (Ya know, like a steak) HEHEHEHEHEHE! ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/55 "2001-10-09T21:48:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*IT’S NOT IRONY!!! > > Irony is the act of saying one thing while meaning it’s exact opposite! > > ARGH!!! \*\* You may want to rethink this “personal crusade” thing…unless you’re being ironic, because that would be pretty funny. From [Merriam-Webster Online](http://www.merriam-webster.com/) (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > Main Entry: iro·ny > Pronunciation: 'I-r&-nE also 'I(-&)r-nE > Function: noun > Inflected Form(s): plural -nies > Etymology: Latin ironia, from Greek eirOnia, from eirOn dissembler > Date: 1502 > 1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other’s false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning – called also Socratic irony > 2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance > **3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity** b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play – called also dramatic irony, tragic irony ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/56 "2001-10-10T00:24:03Z")
So…is it ironic that this thread is in the \*_BBQ Pit_? ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/57 "2001-10-10T06:02:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by jmatthewb \* > > \*\*… fellow camel f#~kers with him! \*\* > > I don’t have much sympathy for the morons either…but could we dispense with the racial epithets? It’s so…, you know…, un-American and all that. \*\* I’m glad to see that I wasn’t the only one to feel this way. I should have posted this sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/58 "2001-10-10T06:13:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Two fire trucks were torched in the street. > > So, who do they call when the flames reach their own neighborhood. Do these people have shoe-size IQ’s or what? > Why am I having a really hard time mustering any sympathy? \*\* I knew that somehow this was going to link up with the Simpsons episodes where the citizens of Springfield form another one of their everlasting mobs, this time against modern science. They storm the Museum of Natural History, and a T-Rex skeleton falls on Moe. “Oh, I’m paralyzed. Gee, I hope modern science can cure me.” ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/59 "2001-10-10T06:35:24Z")
This should encourage us all. It’s proof that all over the world people are the same. Look at the 2 photos. When he lights the flag no one is smiling. When the flag lights him veryone is laughing. See we’re all born with the God given gift of laughing at the misfortunes of others. ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207/60 "2001-10-10T08:14:05Z")
Yes, I think it’s called schadenfreude. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/awww-thats-a-shame/86207.md?page=4)