# Ayn Rand **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2000, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412 "2000-06-24T17:49:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![frodosteve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e19adc/32.png) [@frodosteve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frodosteve)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/1 "2000-06-24T17:49:49Z")
I have been interested in reading her books for a while now, but they are very intimidating. Over 1000 pages and teeny tiny print. Should I give these books a shot? If so, which one should I read? Or, more optimistically, which should I read first? If it helps, my favorite authors include Kurt Vonnegut, Tom Robbins, John Irving, Michael Crichton, and (less known) Tim Sandlin. Thanks for your tips. ``` - Stephen ``` ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/2 "2000-06-24T17:59:30Z")
If you must, read _Anthem_. It’s not _that_ long, it’s simplistic enough to be read by your average 14-year-old, and once you’ve read it you’ll no longer have any interest in reading the rest of her cack. IMHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/3 "2000-06-24T18:34:21Z")
The first on that I read was _The Fountainhead_, and I absolutely loved it. I then rushed out to get _Atlas Shrugged_. It was good, but it pretty much had the same theme of _The Fountainhead_. I recommend _The Fountainhead_, or you can just rent the movie. It has Gary Cooper in it. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/4 "2000-06-24T18:50:01Z")
DEFINITELY rent the film. I have _never_ laughed so hard! SEE Howard Roark knock down one Straw Man after another! “We’d like you to just, uh, put this Classical portico right here on the front of your skyscraper…” And, of course, the final phallus-worship scene, with Patricia Neal riding smoothly up Gary Cooper’s sleek shaft. As for reading the old witch’s nonsense, **ruadh** pretty much nailed the most painless way to go about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/5 "2000-06-24T21:56:23Z")
**frodosteve** , don’t have a recommendation, but you’ve picked a great author. My favorite is Atlas Shrugged, but that goes against your desire for starting at the shallow end. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/6 "2000-06-24T23:30:19Z")
Many moons ago, on the advice of a friend who said it was the best book he had ever read, I slogged through _Atlas Shrugged_ from cover-to-cover. It was, IMHO, the worst collection of adolescent claptrap which I had ever seen, then or since. I lost all interest in ever reading anything else by Ms. Rand, although there is a fascinating biography by one of her former followers which is well worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2000, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/7 "2000-06-24T23:32:38Z")
I read Atlas Shrugged four times!! I loved it!! It was utterly rational, well-reasoned, and compelling to boot. I couldn’t get enough of it. It changed my life. Then I grew up. V. ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2000, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/8 "2000-06-25T01:31:03Z")
> [@](#): > > a fascinating biography by one of her former followers which is well worth reading Well, no one’s mentioned _We the Living_ yet - if you’re interested in biography, _WTL_ is the one Rand said was her most “autobiographical.” And don’t let the grouches scare you off - Rand’s stuff is a lot more interesting when you’re young and idealistic. If you insist on reading _Atlas_, feel free to skip the chapter called, “John Galt Speaks” - it’s a rambling restatement of everything the book’s been saying to that point. It’s highly skimmable. **Uke** - Hollywood’s treatment of _The Razor’s Edge_ (with Tyrone Power) is every bit as bad as _The Fountainhead_. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2000, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/9 "2000-06-25T04:11:50Z")
Starting at the “shallow end” with Ayn Rand is like, say, starting at the shallow end with Freud. Tom Robbins fan? Why don’t you read \The Fountainhead\, then read \Still Life with Woodpecker\ five times when you’re done. If you still like Rand, read \Woodpecker\ five more times to clear her out of your system. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2000, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/10 "2000-06-25T14:57:06Z")
I share a similar experience with Sua. I, too, was uttely sucked into Aynus Rand as a callow youth. I recovered, due to the kindly intervention of chemo-therapy, 60’s style. Suffered a seizure of Herman Hesse for a while, recovered when I realized it was all rather gay (check it out: all of Herman Hesse’s heros have long eyelashes). Dig Tom Robbins, has some great one-liners, if only he wasn’t so determined to be so damn CUTE! Kurt V. is the MAN! Aynus Rand? Newt Gingich is a big fan. 'Nuff sed. ---
**Author:** ![jayron\_32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/41988e/32.png) [@jayron\_32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayron_32)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2000, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/11 "2000-06-25T15:37:37Z")
Well, when I was in High School, searching for an ideology, I stumbled upon Ayn Rand, and gobbled it up. Similar to Sua and Elucidator, I too got to see Ms. Rand as a personal savior. Once you get some experience behind you, and youthful ideaslism dies off, you come to realize her flaws. I would DEFINATLY say to read her work, but take it with a grain of salt. Some parts of her philosophy, IMHO, are still valid, but most of it is impractical in the real world. Remember, in the sort of sorld where Objectivism would work, ALL socioeconomic systems, including Communism, would work as well. Unfortunately for the real world, it doesn’t work that way. SOme caveats when you are reading Rand: 1. She’s largely writing philosophical treatices disguised as fiction. As such, her characters turn out flat and predictable, and the coflicts that arise and the barriers to their “philosophical growth” seem rather contrived. Remember, in her books the characters themselves are paradigms, each showing you the sort of person that either believes in her philosophy or doesn’t. Unlike in a Rand book, there are more than 3 kinds of people in the world. 2. As for specific books to read, Anthem has mostly the same theme and plot as George Lucas’s movie THX-1138. And a much better treatment of it, IMHO. Read 1984 instead of this blatant ripoff. In The Fountainhead she uses architectural theory as a metaphor for life. It reads like a Tom Clancy novel in that it gets quite techincal in points, but keep in mind that when she’s talking about architecture, she really means LIFE. Atlas Shrugged is daunting, and some parts of it are actually exciting, if you can believe it, but you have to get through the John Galt Speaks part… It rambles quite a bit. 3. Be careful with her female characters. They all have some pretty disturbing trends, inluding deep-rooted rape fantasies that are pretty bizarre. Ms. Rand definately has a warped view of sex. My advice: read them, their pretty good. Try to understand her philosophy. Even let a little bit of it into your own life. Just don’t go believeing it whole-hog, because a few years experience in the world will tell you it’s largely bunk, even if “rational.” ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2000, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/12 "2000-06-25T17:12:41Z")
“Survey”-style questions such as this are best served in In My Humble Opinion. I’ll move the thread there now. ---
**Author:** ![sweetcan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@sweetcan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweetcan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2000, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/13 "2000-06-25T18:20:03Z")
I found The Fountainhead to be adolescent, pretentious, offensive, and insulting. To be fair, it is the only one I ever read. In high school I discussed this with an English teacher who was a huge fan, and she somehow likened this to the fact that my mother was an immigrant from Mexico 😕 I don’t see that. It’s just dreck…but I suppose you should read it because, like it or not, it is a very influential book in American history. Let us know what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2000, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/14 "2000-06-25T21:24:31Z")
I’d suggest Anthem. I had to read it for an ethics course, and in THAT context it was fascinating. After that, I slogged through Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. Not as great. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/15 "2000-06-25T22:11:03Z")
Pick up _Anthem_ or _The Fountainhead._ Begin to read it. Realize what a merciless twit this woman is. Put it down. Go get _The Unconscious Civilization_ by John Ralston Saul. Read that instead. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2000, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/16 "2000-06-26T04:12:04Z")
I read _Atlas Shrugged_ first. It was tough work getting through, but was very intrigued by it. It certainly fit in with the direction my ideas were moving towards at the time. There is very little in her books that you might have seen elsewhere. You’ll see many reasons why this book has been one of the most influential ever. I still enjoy visiting Rand’s fictional world where Objectivism is the perfect philosophy. What works for you in this world may or may not be at all similar, but that needn’t get in the way of enjoying her fiction. As for Rand’s views on sex, I think it fits in with a larger set of opinions, all somewhat bizarre, about gender roles in general. She tends to see women as needing to be dominated as a part of femininity, and wrote a pretty dumb article once on why a woman should never desire to be President, which I’m sure is discussed online somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2000, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/17 "2000-06-26T06:11:42Z")
Ayn Rand’s universe is all black-and-white, good vs. evil. There are no in-between gray areas – her characters either toe her idealistinc line, in which case they’re heroes, or they don’t toe her idealistic line, in which case their either treacherous villains or pathetic losers (or both). The same was true about the theories of Wilhelm Reich, who, I hate to admit, was once someone whose works _ **I** _ idolized. I’ve since learned how to spot a crackpot, and am working on my own webpage debunking Reich’s various theories in detail at [http://www.netcom.com/~rogermw/Reich.html](http://www.netcom.com/~rogermw/Reich.html). (I’ve only done Bions and T-Bacilli so far, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2000, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/18 "2000-06-26T18:07:33Z")
What’s to be intimidated about? I could be just stupid and not really get all the crap I’ve heard about her work, I just didn’t see it. Of course I only read “The Fountainhead”. But I found that particular book to be what I termed “early Jackie Collins”. Not what I was expecting. I was not impressed. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2000, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/19 "2000-06-27T01:54:12Z")
Her views on sex warped? The heroines of the stories gets raped, then fall in love with the rapist!! Warped?? That’s sick. Worst part is that the scenes are totally unecessary and detract from the otherwise wonderful stories she worte. ---
**Author:** ![labdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5fc32e/32.png) [@labdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labdude)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2000, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412/20 "2000-06-27T03:34:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > I found The Fountainhead to be adolescent, pretentious, offensive, and insulting. To be fair, it is the only one I ever read. > > In high school I discussed this with an English teacher who was a huge fan, and she somehow likened this to the fact that my mother was an immigrant from Mexico 😕 I don’t see that. It’s just dreck…but I suppose you should read it because, like it or not, it is a very influential book in American history. > > Let us know what you think. > \*\* ditto. read the cliff notes and save the hours of your life for something else. Rand is a total nut case. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ayn-rand/23412.md?page=2)