# Aziz Ansari, Sexual assault allegations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606 "2018-01-14T16:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/261 "2018-01-17T01:46:02Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Several people have commented that this incident “destroyed his career” or words to that effect. I’ve seen no evidence of this and think such predictions are premature. I agree. It sounds like there is a backlash to this report and people can see it actually is ‘revenge porn’ as **DSeid** has described it. He will likely take a hit for it though. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/262 "2018-01-17T01:49:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Let’s be very clear: what drove his being humiliated in the public sphere and the likely destruction of his career with a graphic recounting of a private consensual sexual encounter is precisely the fact that he is an effective feminist and public in the fight against abuse of power against women. If this was a report about Charlie Sheen no one would pay it any attention at all. The message to male celebrities? Be an advocate for feminist causes at your own great risk. Unless you think you’ve _never_ had a single encounter that a woman experienced as you not completely understanding her, you have reason to worry. Interesting point. You’re correct. It was the perceived hypocrisy that made the story newsworthy. If he had just been a typical male hound dog, the backlash would have been against her for going back to his house in the first place and thinking that they were just going to sit around and play cards. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/263 "2018-01-17T02:06:06Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Several people have commented that this incident “destroyed his career” or words to that effect. I’ve seen no evidence of this and think such predictions are premature. I’ll qualify as “potentially if not probably” if it makes it more acceptable to you. If you think it has not minimally significantly damaged his career then, based who his target demographic is, beg to differ. > [@Frylock](#): > > [On Aziz Ansari And Sex That Feels Violating Even When It’s Not Criminal | HuffPost Entertainment](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/aziz-ansari-sex-violating-but-not-criminal_us_5a5e445de4b0106b7f65b346) Interesting piece and what do you take away from it? To me this is the key section: > [@](#): > > I wondered why I hadn’t articulated my boundaries more clearly. I wondered why so little care or attention had been paid to my verbal and nonverbal cues of discomfort and disinterest. The latter is easy to answer. _You are hooking up_, having a sexual encounter, with people who _you barely know_ and who barely know you. Expecting a virtual stranger to be more interested in your desires than their own is an unrealistic fantasy and expecting a virtual stranger to be able to read your “cues” even if they were really really trying their best is naive. Even if you thought they were really very clear. The answer is not so complicated. Don’t blame society for having socialized you “from a young age to cater to the comfort of those around them ― especially if those around them are men” and don’t put the onus of successful communication completely on the man. Own up. Simply _articulate your boundaries clearly_. You are a freakin’ adult. Don’t say that it is okay for someone you don’t really know to masturbate over you _if it is not_ and if you say it is okay because you have an issue with possibly embarrassing him _don’t blame him for your saying it’s okay_! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/264 "2018-01-17T03:11:56Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Several people have commented that this incident “destroyed his career” or words to that effect. I’ve seen no evidence of this and think such predictions are premature. When someone sexually humiliates a person with whom they were intimate, the threshold for condemning their action isn’t whether it’s a career-ending humiliation. When deciding whether the sexual humiliation of an intimate partner is justified, the standard isn’t “Was the victim of the humiliation a caring lover?” Had the article been published as scrubbed of Ansari’s identifying details as it was of Grace’s, it would–well, it wouldn’t have garnered nearly as much advertising revenue for the website. It would also have made for an interesting case study in consent. But Ansari didn’t consent to have the details of this encounter revealed publicly, and their revelation has been a serious (and probably very traumatic) humiliation for him. I have a lot of trouble seeing Grace as the victim here, given her willingness to humiliate him like this, and part of our discussion around this incident should be when it’s okay to violate a sexual partner’s trust like she did. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/265 "2018-01-17T03:30:08Z")
Jeebus what a mess. “Grace” had a very disturbing experience and now finds herself in the crossfire, and Ansari becomes unwitting Exhbit A for everyone who has ever ranted on any messageboard, forum or blog about “OMG the sex police are going to go after everyone who does not get prior written consent in triplicate!!!” > [@DSeid](#): > > what drove his being humiliated in the public sphere and the likely destruction of his career with a graphic recounting of a private consensual sexual encounter is precisely the fact that he is an effective feminist and public in the fight against abuse of power against women. If this was a report about Charlie Sheen no one would pay it any attention at all And notice how it was reported that she just had to come out with the story after seeing him making a big display of how much he was on the MeToo side. It was his status as an overt, highly visible “Good One” that made it news. (About which, however, I gotta say: dudes, don’t make a show out of how woke and how much an ally you are. Just \*\*\*be \*\*\*it and live it.) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/266 "2018-01-17T03:53:42Z")
Honestly, if anyone uses the term ‘woke’, they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/267 "2018-01-17T03:58:20Z")
“Woke” is the left wing version of “the Red Pill,” full stop. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/268 "2018-01-17T04:23:00Z")
[regarding Huffpost article posted by Frylock] > [@DSeid](#): > > …The latter is easy to answer. _You are hooking up_, having a sexual encounter, with people who _you barely know_ and who barely know you. Expecting a virtual stranger to be more interested in your desires than their own is an unrealistic fantasy and expecting a virtual stranger to be able to read your “cues” even if they were really really trying their best is naive. Even if you thought they were really very clear. > > The answer is not so complicated. Don’t blame society for having socialized you “from a young age to cater to the comfort of those around them ― especially if those around them are men” and don’t put the onus of successful communication completely on the man. Own up. Simply _articulate your boundaries clearly_. You are a freakin’ adult. Don’t say that it is okay for someone you don’t really know to masturbate over you _if it is not_ and if you say it is okay because you have an issue with possibly embarrassing him _don’t blame him for your saying it’s okay_! Yes. I think the broader social backdrop to the #MeToo movement is that we want to move away from seeing women as passive gatekeepers, that women have the same autonomy and agency about sex as men. Not only in the freedom to say no and have it respected, but in the freedom to say yes. Freedom from coercion by men in positions of social or physical power, but also freedom to make positive proactive choices about what sex they want - however often they want - without fear of opprobrium. Enjoying sex (of whatever kind and frequency) does not make a man a “dog” but a woman a “slut”. “Grace”, and the author of the Huffpost article, seem to want to conflate the despicable and widespread coercion that has been exposed this past year with their own bad experiences, acknowledging that in their cases there was no coercion and no crime, but implying that it’s just a question of degree. It’s not, it’s not the same at all. If you choose to hook up with a stranger that you don’t know well, are then vague about your boundaries, and passively acquiesce to sexual activity that you’re not really into - the bad outcome is unfortunate, and a more sensitive man would not have continued. But the person who really needs to learn from this is you. That’s not victim blaming, because there was no victim. Autonomy and agency means the freedom to make decisions about what you want, and to have them respected. And it means that the person responsible for the consequences of your decisions, good or bad, is you. Suggesting that men, or “society”, are always to blame when poor decisions lead to poor outcomes _undermines_ women’s autonomy and agency. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/269 "2018-01-17T05:12:44Z")
The feminist movement (as opposed to feminism) has always had a problem reconciling various strands when they meet in the real world and this is an example of that. They don’t seem to accept that, you can be all for punishing abusers, while at the same time pushing for strong protections for accused individuals. You can be anti-date rape and still think that a particular case was not an example of it. Reminds of Susan Brownmiller’s hatched job on Emmett Till, which of course led to Angela Davis’s excellent _Women, Race and Class_. ---
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/270 "2018-01-17T13:52:41Z")
I have to say, reading the original article, I don’t really feel any sympathy for Grace and definitely don’t consider her a “victim” because she strikes me as a tad hypocritical. Why is she being given a pass for ignoring Ansari’s initial “no”? She didn’t say if it was verbal or non verbal (“She says Ansari brushed her off at first”), but it’s clear she knew it was a “no”, but persisted any way and got what she wanted, a chance for a more intimate encounter. She didn’t respect his initial boundaries when she didn’t get the response she wanted. She set up a boundary pushing situation but doesn’t take any ownership of anything. I think Ansari is a little stupid for not sticking with his initial “no” - and you can see why. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/271 "2018-01-17T17:57:12Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Two NYTimes Op-Ed columnists, both women, state that Ansari may be guilty of being a bad date, but not of assault worthy of violating his privacy: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region) > > Ansari is discussed at the bottom of this one: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/president-porn-star-stephanie-clifford.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/president-porn-star-stephanie-clifford.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region) And I’ve read women who think the reported behavior is part of an all too common and disturbing pattern among men. Whee, we have a debate! ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/272 "2018-01-17T19:55:47Z")
> [@KAndre](#): > > I have to say, reading the original article, I don’t really feel any sympathy for Grace and definitely don’t consider her a “victim” because she strikes me as a tad hypocritical. Why is she being given a pass for ignoring Ansari’s initial “no”? She didn’t say if it was verbal or non verbal (“She says Ansari brushed her off at first”), but it’s clear she knew it was a “no”, but persisted any way and got what she wanted, a chance for a more intimate encounter. She didn’t respect his initial boundaries when she didn’t get the response she wanted. She set up a boundary pushing situation but doesn’t take any ownership of anything. I think Ansari is a little stupid for not sticking with his initial “no” - and you can see why. We don’t have any specifics on how things progressed from his initial no to him being impressed that they were using the same camera, which lead to the flirting, which lead to him getting her number. That could’ve happened in any number of ways that were respectful of his boundaries. Not that she doesn’t deserve any criticism, because she does for blowing things out of proportion. It’s really too bad that she didn’t have a good experience and the things that lead up to it are worth talking about, but she poisoned the well by trying to make this into an assault. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/273 "2018-01-18T01:57:54Z")
The article says: “She says Ansari brushed her off at first, but after he realized they both brought the same kind of camera to the event, an old model from the 80s, he was impressed.” Which lead me to wonder if it would have been possible for her to get that information with some sleuthing and lo!: (at the 1 minute mark) [Aziz Ansari Shows Us What’s in His Trusty Travel Backpack | GQ](https://www.gq.com/story/aziz-ansari-shows-us-whats-in-his-backpack) where he mentions the models of two film cameras he always travels with. The video is from 2 August 2017. Grace and Ansari met at the Emmy awards on 17 September 2017, one month and a half later. Can people who know about cameras say if those cameras are quite common? How much of a coincidence was it for Grace and Ansari to have either of the same models that evening? Maybe there’s nothing to it and it’s just a coincidence. If it’s not, then it looks like the case of a social climber who was quite determined on bagging a ticket into select circles of fame and showbusiness. Her confusion during the encounter may have been an awakening from her self-delusion. Her hesitation to stop the encounter and send clear signals of refusal may have stemmed not from feeling threatened but realizing that putting on the breaks would be an acceptance of failure at her goal and foreclose any possibility of leveraging her youth and looks for that ticket. Vindictiveness over the failure of her planned fantasy would be expected and her qualification of her signals as “clear” would be suspect. LSLGuy used to run a security service against stalkers. Perhaps he could tell us if this jives with his experience when he comes back. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/274 "2018-01-18T02:06:08Z")
I’ve been charitable and only considering her to be foolish and immature. I don’t see a motive for her to set him up though. If she used a camera to get him to pay attention to her that’s a pretty common tactic in the game not really probative. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/275 "2018-01-18T02:19:29Z")
If you happen to have the camera when you meet by chance, sure, hence why I asked how likely a coincidence it was. If it wasn’t a coincidence, that would mean a 200-250USD purchase for a conversation starter specific to one person in preparation for running into him at a show, that’s common? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/276 "2018-01-18T02:50:07Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > If you happen to have the camera when you meet by chance, sure, hence why I asked how likely a coincidence it was. If it wasn’t a coincidence, that would mean a 200-250USD purchase for a conversation starter specific to one person in preparation for running into him at a show, that’s common? If she really is a photographer maybe she’d be looking for a camera anyway. Or maybe she only borrowed that camera. I don’t know. It doesn’t sound like an outrageous thing for a groupie to do. I just don’t see the motive in her doing this just to set Ansari up for a public smear, ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/277 "2018-01-18T04:26:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The feminist movement (as opposed to feminism) has always had a problem reconciling various strands when they meet in the real world and this is an example of that. They don’t seem to accept that, you can be all for punishing abusers, while at the same time pushing for strong protections for accused individuals. You can be anti-date rape and still think that a particular case was not an example of it. There’s a single feminist movement with a single, agreed-upon set of criteria for what constitutes sexual abuse? News to me. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/278 "2018-01-18T05:55:06Z")
This strikes as kinda the opposite of the traditional “no means no” argument. “No” does not mean “yes”, it does not mean “keep trying”, etc. But now we seem to be flipping that around. “I’m not sure about this” does not mean “no”. “Slow down” does not mean 'no". I think the advice to women is that if you mean “no”, say “no”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/279 "2018-01-18T07:39:24Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > This strikes as kinda the opposite of the traditional “no means no” argument. “No” does not mean “yes”, it does not mean “keep trying”, etc. But now we seem to be flipping that around. “I’m not sure about this” does not mean “no”. “Slow down” does not mean 'no". I think the advice to women is that if you mean “no”, say “no”. It’s the natural progression. First “No means no”, then “Everything except yes means no”, to finally “Yes means no”. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/280 "2018-01-18T07:44:26Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s the natural progression. First “No means no”, then “Everything except yes means no”, to finally “Yes means no”. How else are you going to stop all the rampant sex women have to endure? [All PIV sex is rape after all](https://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/) and we should do everything possible to prevent it. We just have to take it one step at a time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=15)