# Aziz Ansari, Sexual assault allegations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606 "2018-01-14T16:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/421 "2018-01-19T19:56:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I have put her down. Why do you still carry her? Like I said, it’s an aside. I just find it interesting. What if one of us is using a word wrong IRL?? If you’re worried I’m still sad about a mischaracterization, I totally understand it wasn’t intentional. We’re cool we’re cool. And it’s possible also, you’re seeing those two definitions and thinking “oh shit, that is what I think they mean, and there totally is daylight between them, oops!” If that’s happening, that’s cool too, I’m not going to pounce 😉 I’m just really interested in knowing if we have diferent understandings of the phrases… it could mean things mean things I don’t know they mean… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/422 "2018-01-19T19:59:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hold up. Think back to how you felt when I paraphrased “NBD” as “above reproach.” You even used body language (okay, an emoji) to let me know. And I picked up on it, yay me! > > How do you think other folks are going to feel when you paraphrase them as you just did? > > The date was bad because both people screwed it up. I’d put more blame on the dude in this situation, during the date; afterward, the woman screwed up worse. But it’s not one-sided at all; it’s not sexual assault unless we’re missing information; it’s not worth ruining either person’s career over; it’s not worth publicly humiliating either person over. I think it’s fine to publicly humiliate him, and if he has a career premised on being sensitive to feminist issues it’s legitimate to describe the incident as it is hypocritical. As to the crime issue, we’ve been back and forth on that so I won’t rehash it! Why is it fine to publicly humiliate him? So that others will know to avoid him in dating situations unless they like that kind of behavior or he has somehow made people confident he has changed his ways. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/423 "2018-01-19T20:01:50Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I think it’s fine to publicly humiliate him, and if he has a career premised on being sensitive to feminist issues it’s legitimate to describe the incident as it is hypocritical. As to the crime issue, we’ve been back and forth on that so I won’t rehash it! > > Why is it fine to publicly humiliate him? So that others will know to avoid him in dating situations unless they like that kind of behavior or he has somehow made people confident he has changed his ways. Are you similarly fine with naming and shaming her? I sure as hell wouldn’t want to go out with her, not after how she treated Ansari, and I’m pretty sure that plenty of men wouldn’t want to go out with her either. (For what it’s worth, I absolutely don’t want folks to name her; even though she violated Ansari’s privacy in this manner, turnabout won’t solve anything). ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/424 "2018-01-19T20:03:49Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Your post was an _ad hominem_ attack. It encouraged readers to dismiss the value of an argument based on pointing at something about the person himself. I encourage readers to dismiss the value of Frylock’s arguments based on pointing at his posts. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > -Ansari interpreted “slow down” etc. as “for a couple of minutes,” and didn’t get clarification. He didn’t pay enough attention to whether his advances were appreciated. He was pushy. He didn’t check in with her. > -Grace expressed her displeasure ambiguously, and when it became clear to her that she wasn’t communicating well, didn’t clarify. She didn’t assert herself. Most appallingly, she decided to deal with this situation through a sexual humiliation of Ansari akin to revenge porn. > > I’d tell Ansari that he needs to get way better at checking in with partners, and if someone says to slow down, he needs to be crystal clear that his partner wants to speed back up before he speeds up himself. Agree. I wonder if there wasn’t something a little meaner about him. If he paid much attention, he likely realized that she was a young, inexperienced groupie who was enamored of him. Yet he went on a Hobbesian date with her; Nasty, brutish and short. A kinder, gentler man would either not have dated her or would have taken things slower and communicated his lack of interest in a relationship through more tactful ways than sticking his fingers down her throat on the first date. Ansari is a short, roundish brown guy with a squeaky voice. She’s a young, good-looking Very White hipster who likely wouldn’t give him the time of day if he weren’t famous. The kind of woman he may have unsuccessfully pined for before he became famous. Could there have been some contempt, resentment or vicarious revenge on his part which would motivate his crudeness? He may simply not have cared and seen her as a single-use, throwaway piece of ass. I also don’t have anything against either being named and getting egg on their face. I’m puzzled that she believed she would remain anonymous. Has she never heard of 4chan? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/425 "2018-01-19T20:04:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are you similarly fine with naming and shaming her? I might lose some SJW cred over this but I’m not _as_ negative about it as most would be–I do think it’s not ideal as she faces a bigger potential backlash (I see him as basically safe. Hell he’s probably going to be known as a good feminist again in a year once he’s done his penance) and she’s much less a public figure than him. There’s also of course considerations of making things safe for victims etc etc. Having said that, I don’t have a completely general aversion to people knowing who is making an accusation when an accusation is made. It’s very case by case. > [@](#): > > I sure as hell wouldn’t want to go out with her, not after how she treated Ansari, I would go out with her, and I would treat her very nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/426 "2018-01-19T20:07:27Z")
…liiike… people should definitely feel free to talk about how a date went, right? “Sure but just with their friends.” Friends have friends. When you talk about it with friends you’re risking the story becoming as public as it has already. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/427 "2018-01-19T20:08:28Z")
That’s another thing. To me a date is not a private event. Talking about the details of a date is not breaching anyone’s privacy! They’re there, together. Hell they’re “on the record” in that it being a date, them knowing people talk about dates, they know they should be on their best behavior. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/428 "2018-01-19T20:09:56Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I think it’s fine to publicly humiliate him, and if he has a career premised on being sensitive to feminist issues it’s legitimate to describe the incident as it is hypocritical. As to the crime issue, we’ve been back and forth on that so I won’t rehash it! His career isn’t remotely “premised” on being a feminist. He’s a goddamn comedian who may sometimes start a joke with “I try to be a sensitive guy…”. It’s not like Gloria Steinem got busted. > [@](#): > > Why is it fine to publicly humiliate him? So that others will know to avoid him in dating situations unless they like that kind of behavior or he has somehow made people confident he has changed his ways. Yes, until the tell all article of his next perfectly normal date with extensive examples of explicit verbal consent happens we should all shun him. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/429 "2018-01-19T20:10:15Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > …liiike… people should definitely feel free to talk about how a date went, right? > > “Sure but just with their friends.” > > Friends have friends. When you talk about it with friends you’re risking the story becoming as public as it has already. Oh, hell no. Gossiping with friends is qualitatively different from publishing a piece on a public news site. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/430 "2018-01-19T20:11:13Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > His career isn’t remotely “premised” on being a feminist. He’s a goddamn comedian who may sometimes start a joke with “I try to be a sensitive guy…”. It’s not like Gloria Steinem got busted. If that’s true, then it’s doubtful his career is going to be damaged. But I disagree–he is well known as a modern sensitive feminist guy. He wrote a book on it ferchrissakes. He didn’t start out that way but between his show and his book it’s become his thing. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/431 "2018-01-19T20:12:19Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > His career isn’t remotely “premised” on being a feminist. He’s a goddamn comedian who may sometimes start a joke with “I try to be a sensitive guy…”. It’s not like Gloria Steinem got busted. > Yes, until the tell all article of his next perfectly normal date with extensive examples of explicit verbal consent happens we should all shun him. Why don’t you name some more plausible ways he could convince people he has changed his ways? It would be more constructive and to the point… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/432 "2018-01-19T20:13:02Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I think it’s fine to publicly humiliate him, and if he has a career premised on being sensitive to feminist issues it’s legitimate to describe the incident as it is hypocritical. As to the crime issue, we’ve been back and forth on that so I won’t rehash it! > > Why is it fine to publicly humiliate him? So that others will know to avoid him in dating situations unless they like that kind of behavior or he has somehow made people confident he has changed his ways. That’s pretty disgusting. Do you think that the details of every personal encounter you have ever had should be made public? And not only that, but they should be made public by the words of the other person, never your own? Just to make sure that people know who they are dealing with, when they have interactions with you. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/433 "2018-01-19T20:14:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Oh, hell no. Gossiping with friends is qualitatively different from publishing a piece on a public news site. I guess with friends there is often an assumption that “this stays between us” but: A. That assumption is honored more in the breach t B. With this particular issue, that assumption is far less likely to hold now. Women are increasinly willing to be more outspoken about this kind of information about men. The gossip networks are getting more public credibility. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/434 "2018-01-19T20:16:34Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Why don’t you name some more plausible ways he could convince people he has changed his ways? It would be more constructive and to the point… Why should I do that? You’re the one who needs convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/435 "2018-01-19T20:18:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s pretty disgusting. Why? He did the things. To another person. Why should she not be free to tell people about what a person did to her? Or if you don’t like “to”, what happened in an interaction between her and another person? I can think of special cases but I don’t see what makes this one. Like–I’ve kissed some women in my life. I have absolutely no problem with the idea that they may have talked to other women about how I kiss, critical or not. Am I supposed to have a problem with this? It’s a thing they experienced, that may have implications for others’ experience. (Here I’m acting like all the ladies are lining up to kiss me which… yeah no they’re not… but you get the idea in general!) Why should I think it should be a secret? “I’m going to touch you intimately but you better not talk about it.” I know it can be kind of… rude? But doesn’t mean I begrudge them the right. The quality of my kisses is “on the record.” (You can quote me on that… outofcontextquotes) It’s out there, in the world, and I have no control over where that information goes, nor should I. Having said that I wouldn’t normally go around gossiping about the quality of kisses of any woman I kissed, because I’m just kind of a nice guy and don’t talk about that stuff with people anyway. But that’s me and my personality. I don’t expect everyone to have that personality, nor see any reason that they should. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/436 "2018-01-19T20:19:41Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I guess with friends there is often an assumption that “this stays between us” but: > > A. That assumption is honored more in the breach t > B. With this particular issue, that assumption is far less likely to hold now. Women are increasinly willing to be more outspoken about this kind of information about men. The gossip networks are getting more public credibility. I’m having real trouble taking this seriously, and wonder if you’ll reflect on this bizarre equivalence between gossip and tabloid journalism, and revisit the question in a week. I’m not going to debate the question with you. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/437 "2018-01-19T20:19:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why should I do that? You’re the one who needs convincing. I don’t understand. I think he could fairly simply do so, with some work. Did you think I thought otherwise? It seemed to me, by going for an extreme example, you were expressing skepticism that it could be done more simply. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/438 "2018-01-19T20:20:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m having real trouble taking this seriously, and wonder if you’ll reflect on this bizarre equivalence between gossip and tabloid journalism, and revisit the question in a week. I’m not going to debate the question with you. … they’re called “gossip mags” for a reason…? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/439 "2018-01-19T20:21:26Z")
OK, so she had an unpleasant date. It happens. The old solution was not to see the creep again. Now you have to publish it to the world to try to ruin the guy. Much more of this and we’ll be back to needing chaperones for dating. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/440 "2018-01-19T20:21:46Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I don’t understand. > > I think he could fairly simply do so, with some work. Did you think I thought otherwise? It seemed to me, by going for an extreme example, you were expressing skepticism that it could be done more simply. So simple you can’t bring yourself to say it I guess. Lol. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=23)