# Aziz Ansari, Sexual assault allegations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606 "2018-01-14T16:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/481 "2018-01-19T22:31:08Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > It’s my understanding that’s generally just to humiliate them by making private information public. Is it generally done in order to be critical of them in a way intended to warn others? I don’t think that’s typically what revenge porn is about. Is it? Oh. It is private information now? Do you _really_ think that ‘Grace’ really intended to put a warning beacon on Ansari, as opposed _all_ the other guys who were “all the fucking same”? Only his behavior was so egregious that it warranted the warning beacon? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/482 "2018-01-19T22:35:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh. It is private information now? People generally think of it that way, so that is the intention, yes. > [@](#): > > Do you _really_ think that ‘Grace’ really intended to put a warning beacon on Ansari, as opposed _all_ the other guys who were “all the fucking same”? Only his behavior was so egregious that it warranted the warning beacon? …yyyyess? I mean. Yes? Of course. I think egregiosity wasn’t the only dimension that led to the decision, his background and fame probably entered into it as well (amplifying the significance and reach of what she was saying) but yeah, basically. She was putting out a warning beacon about this guy. That’s exactly what I think she thought she was doing. I would expect the journalist even played on that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/483 "2018-01-19T22:38:51Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I was assuming a big “if” I guess–“if” he is actually apologetic. > > If he’s not, it would be more complicated. And who determines if he is “actually” apologetic? And what exactly is he apologizing for, as well? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/484 "2018-01-19T22:39:29Z")
> [@](#): > > “I remember saying, ‘You guys are all the same, you guys are all the fucking same.’” Ansari asked her what she meant. When she turned to answer, she says he met her with “gross, forceful kisses.” Assuming it’s an accurate account, does this not fit the definition of sexual assault? A sexual act in the absence of explicit consent? If we are going for an unrealistic outside-the-courtroom standard of “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” doesn’t it _strongly suggest_ that _probably this was a sexual assault_? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/485 "2018-01-19T22:40:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And who determines if he is “actually” apologetic? > > And what exactly is he apologizing for, as well? He does. If he’s actually apologetic, he’ll be able to easily get people to come around because really nobody is thinking of what he did as a big deal anyway, and he’s adorable AF, and he does feminism well. If he’s not actually apologetic, but is willing to pretend, then a little more complicated. If he’s not actually apologetic, and is not willing to pretend, then much complication ensues. What is he apologetic for? Whatever he has come to believe he has done wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/486 "2018-01-19T22:45:06Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > People generally think of it that way, so that is the intention, yes. > > …yyyyess? > > I mean. Yes? > > Of course. > > I think egregiosity wasn’t the only dimension that led to the decision, his background and fame probably entered into it as well (amplifying the significance and reach of what she was saying) but yeah, basically. She was putting out a warning beacon about this guy. That’s exactly what I think she thought she was doing. I would expect the journalist even played on that. To me that is not at all believable. It was intended to humiliate him by exposing what should had been private in order to punish for his “offense”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/487 "2018-01-19T22:47:04Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Assuming it’s an accurate account, does this not fit the definition of sexual assault? A sexual act in the absence of explicit consent? > > If we are going for an unrealistic outside-the-courtroom standard of “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” doesn’t it _strongly suggest_ that _probably this was a sexual assault_? No, not at all. > [@Frylock](#): > > He does. Oh okay, then he decided that he was properly apologetic. All is forgiven then? > [@](#): > > If he’s actually apologetic, he’ll be able to easily get people to come around because really nobody is thinking of what he did as a big deal anyway, and he’s adorable AF, and he does feminism well. Ah, if he’s “actually apologetic” something to be judged by a jury of his peers, eh? > [@](#): > > If he’s not actually apologetic, but is willing to pretend, then a little more complicated. > > If he’s not actually apologetic, and is not willing to pretend, then much complication ensues. Okay, once again, who is determining if he is apologetic enough? Who is determining his sincerity? > [@](#): > > What is he apologetic for? Whatever he has come to believe he has done wrong. And what if what he feels he did wrong is not the same as what you feel he did wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/488 "2018-01-19T22:53:19Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > To me that is not at all believable. It was intended to humiliate him by exposing what should had been private in order to punish for his “offense”. In any case, there is no exception carved into revenge porn laws for “but I thought I had a good reason for doing it,” and that’s as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/489 "2018-01-19T22:54:31Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Assuming it’s an accurate account, does this not fit the definition of sexual assault? A sexual act in the absence of explicit consent? > > If we are going for an unrealistic outside-the-courtroom standard of “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” doesn’t it _strongly suggest_ that _probably this was a sexual assault_? No. Usually the sexual act of sexual assault implies more than a kiss and it was in the context of _having given consent_ for kissing, heavy petting, and mutual oral sex. Her communicating anger at him did not clearly express withdrawal of that consent. No question that if it did go down in that way in reality then he was at best really really stupid and anchored into a false narrative of what was going on. But no that does not fit the definition of assault. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/490 "2018-01-19T23:10:50Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I not only agree with that, I would even put more of the blame for miscommunication on Aziz for the encounter. He should have picked up on things better, even though she was poorly communicating. > > And that’s where it would be left, were it not for her publicly shaming him. That’s the part where she is indefensible, and he is blameless. It’s difficult to tell because none of us were there and we haven’t had a full account of how things happened on Aziz’s end. However, he didn’t deny anything out right. I’ll remain agnostic on this… I CERTAINLY hope that people on both sides realize that they weren’t there to tell if these “non verbal signals” were that apparent enough. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/491 "2018-01-19T23:32:06Z")
**[Moderating]** > [@Riemann](#): > > Frylock has been pestering the English language to change into something more comfortable, he keeps trying to manipulate its nouns. It feels distressed and violated, and there is some controversy over whether an assault has occurred. This is getting awfully personal for CS. Address the content of a post, not the poster. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/492 "2018-01-19T23:38:33Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > So far the only consequences I am seeing to him personally are that he is probably less likely to get a date for a while. > > How big a deal is that to you guys? [No other consequencees, you say?](https://www.thepetitionsite.com/787/018/682/tell-netflix-to-cancel-masters-of-none/) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/493 "2018-01-19T23:44:21Z")
[This guy is in trouble.](https://i.imgur.com/OTrDRZx.gifv) There are witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/494 "2018-01-19T23:49:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 😕 Why are you "oh, come on"ing here? If you’re not saying his behavior was above reproach–if you’re willing to call him selfish and not knowing his moves–you’re not what I was talking about. I think he’s above reproach. Not very far above it though. But he’s been reproached so I guess I’m wrong. I would’ve just said, learn from this. To both of them. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/495 "2018-01-20T01:30:32Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You asked me how he can convince people he’s changed his ways. I think I gave some decent answers to that. > > You’re now asking more complicated questions, and the answers to these questions don’t seem obvious _EVEN TO MEEEEEEEE_ Exactly. The solution to his problem is obvious only if he is a public relations robot. Which, I get the feeling, is the proper way for him to act at the moment in your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/496 "2018-01-20T03:23:42Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > To me that is not at all believable. It was intended to humiliate him by exposing what should had been private in order to punish for his “offense”. How can we figure out what was intended? My assumptions are based on the kinds of assumptions I find reflected in my facebook feed, which is chock full of millenial SJWs and middle aged queer people, for the record. 😉 This gives me certain expectations as to what the woke kids these days can be expected to try to do–or, admittedly, rationalize themselves into trying to do… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/497 "2018-01-20T03:25:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Exactly. The solution to his problem is obvious only if he is a public relations robot. Which, I get the feeling, is the proper way for him to act at the moment in your opinion. I don’t know if it’s the proper way for him to act, somebody just asked me how he can get back into people’s good graces and I suggested some ways. Of course he has to be a public relations robot–and that’s part of why I said it’s “simple”, because he _is_ a public relations robot. It’s basically his job as a celebrity comedian and writer etc. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/498 "2018-01-20T03:26:30Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > [No other consequencees, you say?](https://www.thepetitionsite.com/787/018/682/tell-netflix-to-cancel-masters-of-none/) > > Stranger You skipped a crucial sentence from my post, making it look like I definitively said there were no other consequences, when in fact I indicated what I was saying was far from definitive. Why did you do that? ☹ As to your link, it’s… a petition started and signed by some (small number of, btw) randos. Tell me when Netflix stops carrying the show… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/499 "2018-01-20T03:28:33Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No. > > Usually the sexual act of sexual assault implies more than a kiss and it was in the context of _having given consent_ for kissing, heavy petting, and mutual oral sex. Her communicating anger at him did not clearly express withdrawal of that consent. No question that if it did go down in that way in reality then he was at best really really stupid and anchored into a false narrative of what was going on. But no that does not fit the definition of assault. I’m finding not much clear on the kissing angle–it looks like it’s very dependent on context, and of course would doubtfully be prosecuted on its own (which doesn’t make it not a crime). As to your second point, I am at a loss. The idea that angrily saying “you guys are all the same” does not _at the least_ make consent to kiss _no longer explicit_ is… I just… I have no idea how you can think this as a decent human being. I think you _are_ a decent human being of course. I just have no idea how you can think what you just said and be a decent human being at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/500 "2018-01-20T03:29:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In any case, there is no exception carved into revenge porn laws for “but I thought I had a good reason for doing it,” and that’s as it should be. Just to check, are you saying she broke some revenge porn laws? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=26)