# Aziz Ansari, Sexual assault allegations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606 "2018-01-14T16:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/521 "2018-01-20T14:33:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Just as a data point, in torts class we were taught that the basic English common law definition of “assault” is “an unwanted touch.” The first example that we were given wass that a surgery that you didn’t authorize is an assault. > > That’s civil assault. Criminal assault is defined in criminal statutes. Is there any such thing as “civil sexual assault” as opposed to criminal sexual assault? This is interesting information–it would sound like a civil assault is even more plausible than a criminal sexual assault in the situation as described, and so to call it a “sexual assault” could be understood, in non-legal terms, in more everyday speech, as “a civil assault with a sexual component.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/522 "2018-01-20T14:34:28Z")
That’s probably where I got my “crazy idea” that assault is unwanted touching–I was probably confused about or just had never been aware of a difference in meaning between the terms in civil and criminal contexts. What are the implications, legally, of someone committing civil assault? Does that mean they can be sued for damages but not sent to jail? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/523 "2018-01-20T14:43:24Z")
You can sue anybody for anything. She can sue Ansari for her non-existent damages. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/524 "2018-01-20T14:49:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You can sue anybody for anything. She can sue Ansari for her non-existent damages. Right but normally we often ask ‘can you sue y for x’ to mean ‘does x give a basis for winning a suit against y’. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/525 "2018-01-20T15:00:05Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Right but normally we often ask ‘can you sue y for x’ to mean ‘does x give a basis for winning a suit against y’. That’s not a useful way to ask. Any X is a basis for winning a tort suit if you have proof of X and the damages X caused. She has absolutely no proof, it’s just her word, the word of a stalker and false accuser. He is in a much better position to sue her and win. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/526 "2018-01-20T15:09:01Z")
Let’s figure out what “explicit” means. Where do you guys see her giving explicit consent for him to ram his penis into her ass? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/527 "2018-01-20T15:12:39Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That’s not a useful way to ask. Any X is a basis for winning a tort suit if you have proof of X and the damages X caused. I am not sure that can be true. If “damages” is just “loss of something of value,” well, we’re all causing people to lose things of value all the time, just in the course of everyday life. Surely only certain ways of doing that can be the basis for a lawsuit. Like, why is there a civil definition of “assault” at all? Why would it matter, in a civil case, whether X assaulted Y or not, if the issue is only “WHATEVER X did, did it damage Y”? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/528 "2018-01-20T15:31:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Just as a data point, in torts class we were taught that the basic English common law definition of “assault” is “an unwanted touch.” The first example that we were given wass that a surgery that you didn’t authorize is an assault. > > That’s civil assault. Criminal assault is defined in criminal statutes. Then execute your Torts Professor. That’s the definition of [_battery_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(tort)) ('the slightest unwanted touch). The common law definition of _assault_ is putting a person in fear of imminent harm. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/529 "2018-01-20T15:36:33Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Why. Are you guys. Mad that someone was “humiliated”. When what they’re being “humiliated” for. Is being extremely, aggressively, boundary-pushing, unthinking, oblivious of nonconsent signals, at least potentially dangerous? > > “Humiliated” my ass. > > _He got caught_. He’s a bad dude who did a bad thing and got caught. > > She’s not making fun of his dick. She’s not saying he has poor technique. She is not making fun of him. She is _talking about what a terrible and hypocritical person he turned out to be_. And that’s the thing. He may have made a mistake in thinking that this woman that was coming on to him was in to him, but he is not a bad dude, and he didn’t get caught doing anything “bad”. He is not a terrible and hypocritical person because he turned out to not be as romantic as she thought he would be. > [@Frylock](#): > > Let’s figure out what “explicit” means. > > Where do you guys see her giving explicit consent for him to ram his penis into her ass? WTF? Where, even in her accounts, is this accusation made? If you think that that is what he did, then sure, you have reason to think tht he did something terrible and bad, but he didn’t do that, so where are you coming up with this? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/530 "2018-01-20T15:38:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And that’s the thing. He may have made a mistake in thinking that this woman that was coming on to him was in to him, but he is not a bad dude, and he didn’t get caught doing anything “bad”. > > He is not a terrible and hypocritical person because he turned out to not be as romantic as she thought he would be. > > WTF? Where, even in her accounts, is this accusation made? If you think that that is what he did, then sure, you have reason to think tht he did something terrible and bad, but he didn’t do that, so where are you coming up with this? From the article: > [@](#): > > Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, “Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?” He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse. Edit: I did say “into” rather than “against”\* but anyway, this is “sexual contact or behavior,” unwanted, so the question is, where are you guys seeing the explicit consent? \*Somehow I had in mind him jamming his penis into a butt cheek–I knew he almost certainly didn’t actually ramm it into her anal sphincter as I am sure that would have been said more explicitly–but now seeing “against” rather than “into” I see it makes more sense, he was rubbing back and forth. Same difference as far as sexual assault is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/531 "2018-01-20T16:03:46Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Edit: I did say “into” rather than “against”\* but anyway, this is “sexual contact or behavior,” unwanted, so the question is, where are you guys seeing the explicit consent? Explicit consent isn’t a requirement, that’s your fantasy. She consented to a long line of sexual contact and didn’t tell him it was unwanted. So now we’re back to Ansari being a bad dude because he’s not a mind reader. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/532 "2018-01-20T16:08:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Explicit consent isn’t a requirement, that’s your fantasy. She consented to a long line of sexual contact and didn’t tell him it was unwanted. So now we’re back to Ansari being a bad dude because he’s not a mind reader. Sexual assault is sexual contact or behavior in the absence of explicit consent. I have linked to the DoJ definition twice now. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/533 "2018-01-20T16:11:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Broader issue and possibility: maybe, just maybe, society is not equipping young women (or at least not doing a good enough job) to be able to properly assert themselves when it comes to sex and related issues. Maybe, just maybe, society is sending strong signals to young women that it’s wrong to say “no”, to be assertive, etc. Some women assuredly develop the self-confidence and skills necessary even with such possible societal barriers, but maybe some women do not. > > If so, that isn’t Aziz Ansari’s fault. But it’s also not this woman’s fault for telling her story (assuming it’s true). > > Maybe society is just failing lots and lots of young women (and, conversely, young men as well, in a mirror-image way, perhaps by teaching men that apparent reluctance or reticence from women can be ignored). I don’t always see everything eye to eye with you. … but I’ve had trouble, as a man, saying no. I don’t blame the woman. So, you might have a good point here. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/534 "2018-01-20T16:19:25Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Sexual assault is sexual contact or behavior in the absence of explicit consent. I have linked to the DoJ definition twice now. I apologize, I thought you meant something else. The DoJ definition I have found doesn’t define explicit consent, and there are other elements required for a sexual assault. So how about providing complete definitions and telling us how this conforms to a sexual assault legally. One of the key elements of consent is the opportunity to say no and she had plenty of those opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/535 "2018-01-20T16:23:40Z")
Here is waht I’m saying. Sexual assault is sexual contact or behavior in the absence of explicit consent. Ramming his dick against her ass was sexal contact or behavior. She did not give explicit consent for him to ram his dick against her ass. Therefore he committed sexual assault. The first and second premise seem to be agreed to by all. The dispute is over the third. The question I asked above is, "let’s get clear on what ‘explicit’ means. As a way to start off that discussion, I asked for you guys to show me where you are seeing the explicit consent. So… can you tell me about that? Where are you seeing the explicit consent? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/536 "2018-01-20T16:37:15Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Here is waht I’m saying. > > Sexual assault is sexual contact or behavior in the absence of explicit consent. > > Ramming his dick against her ass was sexal contact or behavior. > > She did not give explicit consent for him to ram his dick against her ass. > > Therefore he committed sexual assault. > > The first and second premise seem to be agreed to by all. The dispute is over the third. The question I asked above is, "let’s get clear on what ‘explicit’ means. As a way to start off that discussion, I asked for you guys to show me where you are seeing the explicit consent. > > So… can you tell me about that? Where are you seeing the explicit consent? Does this mean one has to ask the other party, "Is this ok? " every second? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/537 "2018-01-20T16:38:47Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Does this mean one has to ask the other party, "Is this ok? " every second? I wouldn’t think so. I’m just asking, I want to know what people think. Where are you guys seeing explicit consent for him to ram his dick against her ass? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/538 "2018-01-20T16:44:27Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I wouldn’t think so. > > I’m just asking, I want to know what people think. > > Where are you guys seeing explicit consent for him to ram his dick against her ass? You said putting your hand on your friend’s leg was assault, right? I mean… Wow. And a woman once complained to me that I wasn’t aggressive enough and I didn’t act “like a man.” I was just being careful. I hate all these rules and people act as if it’s soooo simple ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/539 "2018-01-20T16:45:01Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I wouldn’t think so. > > I’m just asking, I want to know what people think. > > Where are you guys seeing explicit consent for him to ram his dick against her ass? Again, define explicit consent. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/540 "2018-01-20T16:51:37Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Again, define explicit consent. Forehead slap. I am trying to discuss what _your_ understanding of the concept is, by asking about _your_ understanding of what indicates it was given in the Ansari case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=28)