# Aziz Ansari, Sexual assault allegations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 14, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606 "2018-01-14T16:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/61 "2018-01-15T00:42:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > This discussion seems to have been pretty played out and is at the juncture of panelists rehashing the same points over and over. I think you should all move on and delve into [”how this lipstick stain got inside a toilet.”](https://babe.net/2018/01/11/people-are-melting-down-trying-to-figure-out-how-this-lipstick-stain-got-inside-a-toilet-27876) We need top grade news analysis on this indefatigable mystery of critical interational importance. > > Stranger The horny toilet was being pushy, and moving much more quickly than his date was comfortable with. As soon as they started kissing, the toilet immediately became flushed, flipped up his seat and started rattling his chain. The evening did not end well. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/62 "2018-01-15T00:43:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You like to go to extremes, don’t you? How about, if someone comes onto you in public, asks for a date, then comes to your place and engages in oral sex with you, then there is a reasonable belief that they want more. If they do not say that they do not want more, if they just mumble and pull away, what are you supposed to do with that? What do you do if someone pulls away from your sexual advances? You don’t keep trying over and over and over again. People are all getting hung up on the fact that she went part of the way sexually, but not all the way. If I decide to be nice and give you $5, does that entitle you to chase me around the apartment trying to get the other $5 out of my pants? Hell no. Same thing. You don’t demand more of a gift. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/63 "2018-01-15T00:57:00Z")
I was once a 22 year old woman (and a bit naive. though not for long). I also went to bed with people and regretted it mightily the next day. I never called out to the world that I had been assaulted, though. I just tried to make better decisions and not drink so much. As for assault, I have in fact been assaulted (n criminal and civil law, assault is an attempt to initiate harmful or offensive contact with a person, or a threat to do so) and what I did was fight back and leave the premises. This entire discussion makes me think that maybe the women’s movement ought to get back to teaching women self defense and self respect and stop trying to parse “assault” and get their names in the tabloids. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/64 "2018-01-15T00:58:39Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Is your vision of the future of woke dating that all exploratory physical contact should require explicitly articulated mutual consent, with each sequential stage preceded by a verbal enquiry about whether there is mutual consent for _this_ particular body part to come into contact with _that_ one? Perhaps it could be streamlined with boilerplate “first base”, “second base”, “third base” consent documents, with notaries public available on Skype? Jokes aside, someone has developed an app that basically does this and establishes that yes, Jane Smith _did_ consent to sexytime with Fred Bloggs at this date and at this time. Here’s the thing: Calling every fumbled pass or off-colour joke or poorly articulated suggestion “Sexual assault” or “Sexual harassment” diminishes the real harm suffered by people who have suffered _actual_ sexual assault (rape and ilks unpleasant ilk) or _actual_ sexual harassment (“Suck my dick or you’re fired”; people pinching secretary’s bottoms, all that other _Mad Men_ stuff). And worse, telling anyone who defends the accused in one of these minor/trivial cases - even on boring grounds like “There’s no evidence for any of this” or “It allegedly happened 20 years ago and putting a hand on your knee wasn’t a serious thing then or now” - that they’re effectively Glenn Quagmire themselves isn’t helping. It’ll be interesting to see what the social dynamics of the first world are in a few decades when horny young men have access to realistic VR sex and can bang porn stars and computer-generated hotties at will. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/65 "2018-01-15T01:07:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > People are all getting hung up on the fact that she went part of the way sexually, but not all the way. I don’t think that’s true at all. Her story is a jumble that is the _opposite_ of what you describe. She says she engaged in consnsual fellatio; yet when he tried to move her hand toward his penis it made her deeply uncomfortable. Anyone can withdraw consent at any time, with no burden of explanation. But, by her own account, she did _not_ withdraw consent, and he did not coerce her. Evidently she was not enjoying his sexual “moves”, and she asked him to slow down. But by her own account she chose to continue with consensual intimate contact rather than tell him to stop completely and/or ask to leave. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/66 "2018-01-15T01:37:19Z")
All of you guys making excuses need to fucking stop. We are discussing the actions of the guy. You do not get to use the actions of the girl to excuse the actions of the guy. Making up bullshit about taking away autonomy is bullshit. \*\*That’s what you are doing because she’s telling you stuff and you saying she deserved it due to her actions. \*\* Anzasi pressured her. That is wrong. **If someone wants to have sex with you, there is no pressure needed.** Ansazi was specifically told she was uninterested. But he did it anyways. The part you guys are so focused on should never have happened in the first place, because she was pressured into that situation. The lines were crossed. You want to pretend the lines are murky, but that only results in making unwanted sexual contact more likely. **The entire thing we are trying to stop is unwanted sexual contact of any kind.** **The criteria for consent is enthusiastic consent.** If you are pushing the entire time, then you aren’t getting consent. Consent is a push-pull concept. You push, then you wait for reciprocation. You do not continue to push until you have consent via reciprocation. It’s not fucking hard. Stop coming up with excuses. You are helping rapists. And it is disgusting, and the reason the #MeToo movement has to exist in the first place. Why can’t you just get that there is a line, and it is NOT “if they don’t verbally say no”? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/67 "2018-01-15T01:43:44Z")
And here we have a textbook demonstration of what I was literally talking about two posts previously. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/68 "2018-01-15T01:56:15Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > And here we have a textbook demonstration of what I was literally talking about two posts previously. …that doesn’t mean what BigT said was wrong. “Textbook” or not. Its easy to create a strawman and then point to it and say “proved my point!” But if you want to prove your point, you’ve actually got to do the work. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/69 "2018-01-15T02:00:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > All of you guys making excuses need to fucking stop. We are discussing the actions of the guy. You do not get to use the actions of the girl to excuse the actions of the guy. The hell we don’t. We’re judging her by her own consent, her own actions. **Quit acting like she isn’t an adult party to this, you’re not helping.** “The only consent is enthusiastic consent”? Fucking bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/70 "2018-01-15T02:07:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > The hell we don’t. We’re judging her by her own consent, her own actions. …perhaps you could spread the judgement around a bit more. Why are you only judging her? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/71 "2018-01-15T02:08:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Consent is a push-pull concept. You push, then you wait for reciprocation. You do not continue to push until you have consent via reciprocation. It’s not fucking hard. No, it is very hard because it is becoming more and more common for the first “push” to result in an accusation of improper sexual misconduct at the very least. There is no logical way to win at this game the way it is interpreted at the fringes. I have never heard of this concept called “enthusiastic consent”. Life isn’t a porn set (although I would like to see that demonstrated with college cheerleaders). It doesn’t usually work that way at all. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/72 "2018-01-15T02:16:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > . > … Can I reccomend you stop doing sex like this? … No. You cannot. I do not consent to you doing so. Can I recommend that you actually read the context of the posts to which you respond? Why yes I can. But of course you can continue to refuse to do so! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/73 "2018-01-15T02:17:28Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …perhaps you could spread the judgement around a bit more. Why are you only judging her? Stop and go back to the very first few sentences of my original post in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/74 "2018-01-15T02:18:29Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have never heard of this concept called “enthusiastic consent”. Life isn’t a porn set (although I would like to see that demonstrated with college cheerleaders). It doesn’t usually work that way at all. That was the post where we learned that BigT has never been married or in a committed relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/75 "2018-01-15T02:20:28Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > That was the post where we learned that BigT has never been married or in a committed relationship. Yes, I am a little worried that all the middle aged married couples in the nation will soon be arrested for constantly assaulting one another. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/76 "2018-01-15T02:21:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No. You cannot. I do not consent to you doing so. > > Can I recommend that you actually read the context of the posts to which you respond? Why yes I can. But of course you can continue to refuse to do so! …so this **is** how you do sex? If someone gave you a non-verbal sign that they didn’t want to do sex, you’d ignore it? A simple yes or no would suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/77 "2018-01-15T02:29:10Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Stop and go back to the very first few sentences of my original post in this thread. > [@Chimera](#): > > “I went on a date with a guy and he made passes at me!” > > The horror… the horror. :rolleyes: > > If I missed a part where he did actually physically assault her, than I apologize. …yep. A rush to judgement about her in your original post. Did you mean your second post? > [@](#): > > Ok, moving her hand towards his genitals is over the line. Doing it more than once puts him solidly in ‘Creep’ territory and I hope that it severely impacts his future dating options. That “judgement” is kinda neutered somewhat by what you posted next: > [@](#): > > But there also comes a point where someone needs to scream in her face “OK LADY, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU STILL HERE?” Continuing to be there after repeated attempts at creepery crosses into mixed-messages territory and removes the ‘completely blameless’ from her side of the equation. At that point, he’s thinking “Well she’s not leaving…” So “he crossed the line, but she didn’t leave, so what did she expect to happen?” Is that a fair summary of your position? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/78 "2018-01-15T02:35:17Z")
Hey, thanks for coming roaring into the debate on page 2, ignoring most of what people have written and making this all about your judgement of other posters. I have nothing further to explain to you as you are in no position of authority, moral or otherwise, to place yourself upon this high horse. If you wish to state your opinion on the topic of conversation, please do so. If you want to play ‘moral authority’, take a hike. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/79 "2018-01-15T02:37:17Z")
You guys are missing the point! What about Justin Bieber’s monkey? It can’t even offer consent! And is “period trapping” (whatever that is) really “the only way to find out if you’re in a relationship or not”? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606/80 "2018-01-15T02:40:52Z")
**[Moderating]** > [@Chimera](#): > > That was the post where we learned that BigT has never been married or in a committed relationship. If you want to make comments like this, take it to the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aziz-ansari-sexual-assault-allegations/806606.md?page=5)