# Aztec human sacrifice **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960 "2013-06-14T02:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/41 "2013-06-15T04:59:27Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > I honestly think they were just very sadistic people and made up a religion to justify it. . . . It’s just blatant sadism. So what was the origin of their sadism? Was it genetic? How exactly did they become sadistic before they “made up their religion.” As has been pointed out, the Aztecs were far from unique in their cruelty. Europeans at more or less the same time were burning thousands of people alive in public display, or executing them by disemboweling or other tortures. The Aztecs developed a cultural system that worked for them, at least for a time. They instituted a Reign of Terror that served to intimidate and subdue their neighbors and conquered peoples. They didn’t invent human sacrifice or other cruel aspects of their culture; these had been practiced in Mesoamerica for centuries before them. The Aztecs however ramped them up to levels not seen before. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/42 "2013-06-15T05:01:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Nope, cocaine is a painkiller. Plastic surgeons like to use it for facial surgery because it both kills pain and reduces bleeding at the same time. Isn’t it a local anesthetic, not really a “painkiller” as we think of it, like NSAIDs or opiates? Or does it actually have any kind of systemic pain-killing properties when ingested in the usual manner? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/43 "2013-06-15T06:33:45Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Not my cup of tea.:eek: No tea, but you could get a great cup of chocolate, though. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/44 "2013-06-15T11:37:13Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Isn’t it a local anesthetic, not really a “painkiller” as we think of it, like NSAIDs or opiates? Or does it actually have any kind of systemic pain-killing properties when ingested in the usual manner? More of a local, although there are some systematic effects. However, I’m not aware of ANY painkiller that will numb the effects of having your heart cut out, unless you’re doped unconscious. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/45 "2013-06-15T11:53:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > However, I’m not aware of ANY painkiller that will numb the effects of having your heart cut out, unless you’re doped unconscious. Sounds like a research project for Butch ([Chopping Block](http://choppingblock.keenspot.com/)). **Curare** won’t actually help with the pain, but it will help with the screaming, wriggling, futile attempts to escape. Makes getting through the diaphragm easier if it is relaxed, too. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/46 "2013-06-15T13:12:48Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > [People are people](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Punishing-witches-Laienspiegel.jpg), sadly. The Aztecs do stand out in terms of sheer numbers of sacrifices ( though the numbers remain disputed ) in the pre-modern world. But whether it sacrificing children to Baal-Hammon, torturing witches in Bamberg or Nazis conducting medical experimentation, you’ll find no shortage of mans inhumanity towards man throughout history. Your namesake is probably even a better example: the worse atrocities have always been invading armies sacking cities. There’s the strategic aspect, of course–make the next city give up without a fight. There’s also the pragmatic: paying soldiers in loot is cheap, and, I suspect, makes being in an army feel like buying a lottery ticket: you COULD get lucky. Some other guy did. But more than both of those, I think it’s just that to be a soldier you have to dehumanize your opponents, and that extends to his wife and children. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/47 "2013-06-15T14:20:27Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > What kind of stuff would they have been high on? Does opium grow in that area? They had access to a [cornucopia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_use_of_entheogens) of [hallucinogens](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbina_corymbosa) and [deliriants](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliriant). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/48 "2013-06-15T18:46:00Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > Yes I would say it is probably the most brutal thing I have ever heard of. The holocaust doesn’t compare to it. They were killed with cyanide gas which is pretty quick and painless compared to being disemboweled alive. You do know that not everyone who died did so in the gas chambers, right? A lot of them were subject to brutal [medical experiments](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele), including vivisection. (I’d say that’s right up there with being disembowled) The worst of the camps was in [Jasenovac](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp), Croatia. They didn’t even bother with the gas chambers – there people were cremated _alive_. As for gas chambers being “pretty quick and painless”, think again. The average time was about 20 minutes – not what I’d call a quick death when it’s by poisonous gas. [Zyklon B](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B), for example: > [@](#): > > According to Rudolf Höss, the commandant of Auschwitz, Bunker 1 held 800 victims, and Bunker 2 held 1,200 victims. Once the gas chambers were full, their doors were closed tightly, and solid pellets of Zyklon B were dropped into the chambers through pipes in the side walls, thus releasing the cyanide gas when the Zyklon B got wet. Those victims inside the gas chambers usually died within 20 minutes. The speed of the deaths depended on how close the victim was standing to a poison gas vent, according to Höss, who estimated that about one third of the victims died practically immediately. Johann Kremer, an SS doctor who oversaw the gassings, testified: the “Shouting and screaming of the victims could be heard through the opening and it was clear that they fought for their lives.” If the gas chamber had been crowded, which they typically were, the corpses were found half-squatting, their skin discolored pink with red and green spots, with some found foaming at their mouths, or bleeding from their ears. Or what about the Japanese and [Unit 371](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/49 "2013-06-15T19:04:33Z")
[Here’s more](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/50 "2013-06-15T19:58:30Z")
As a fan of mythology, it’s my impression that the gods of meso America were indeed particularly bloodthirsty. For example When Aneas falls in love with queen Dido and wants to settle his people on her island, Venus appears to him and says ‘You must leave this place and found Rome. Go. Steal away in the night without telling any outsider. This way, they won’t be able to convince you to stay.’ Full disclosure- upon finding Aneas gone, Dido commits suicide. When the Mexica find acceptance and love in a foreign land and want to stay, a god (I can look up which one if you insist) appears to their leader and says ‘You must leave this place and go found Mexico. Kill the princess who has fallen in love with you. Go to her father dressed in her skin. Then they will kick you out and you will have no choice but to go’. Don’t believe me? Look up Xipe Totec Re Willing Sacrifices According to Joseph Campbell, many sacrifices did go willingly. They believed they would dwell forever in paradise, ensure prosperity for their people, and be honored as heroes. Re Hallucinogens The Aztec had a god of shrooms, Teonanacatl. I have a replica statuette of the god made by McNeal Pharmaceuticals. ---
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/51 "2013-06-16T01:26:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You do know that not everyone who died did so in the gas chambers, right? A lot of them were subject to brutal [medical experiments](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele), including vivisection. (I’d say that’s right up there with being disembowled) The worst of the camps was in [Jasenovac](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp), Croatia. They didn’t even bother with the gas chambers – there people were cremated _alive_. > > As for gas chambers being “pretty quick and painless”, think again. The average time was about 20 minutes – not what I’d call a quick death when it’s by poisonous gas. [Zyklon B](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B), for example: With cyanide gas It took 20minutes to die yes but they were unconscious in less than a minute, its the same thing with hanging. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/52 "2013-06-16T01:30:41Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > With cyanide gas It took 20minutes to die yes but they were unconscious in less than a minute, You have a cite for that? Panatti’s Extraordinary Endings Of Practically Everything And Everybody has most of an article written by a reporter who witnessed an execution in the gas chamber. The short version is that the condemned remained conscious and in obvious agony for around 10 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/53 "2013-06-16T01:44:47Z")
Is anyone else reading the thread title and imagining someone being sacrificed by crashing them in a [PA-23](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-23)? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/54 "2013-06-16T02:04:48Z")
huh, couldn’t find it using SDMB search but it turned up right away using Yahoo. > [@](#): > > From Charles Panati’s Extraordinary Endings Of Practically Everything And Everybody One of the most famous of such experiments was conducted in 1960 with convicted murderer Caryl Chessman. Chessman agreed to inhale the lethal fumes and blink and nod his head to indicate varying degrees of pain. To the horror of doctors and news reporters observing the execution, Chessman signaled vigorously, indicating that the gassing death was agonizing. The next morining, a reporter wrote: “I thought he must be dead but no, there was another agonizing period during which he choked on the gas. And again. And then again. There was a long period, another deep gasp. At the fourth such straining, Chessman’s head lolled in a half circle, coming forward so that he faced downward with his chin almost touching his chest. This must be the end. But the dying went on.” Panati also says that the average death in the gas chamber is eight to nine minutes. ---
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/55 "2013-06-16T02:21:07Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > You have a cite for that? > > Panatti’s Extraordinary Endings Of Practically Everything And Everybody has most of an article written by a reporter who witnessed an execution in the gas chamber. The short version is that the condemned remained conscious and in obvious agony for around 10 minutes. Convulsions are common with cyanide, it dosen’t mean they can feel them, as they are unconscious in under a minute. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/56 "2013-06-16T02:37:22Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > Convulsions are common with cyanide, it dosen’t mean they can feel them, as they are unconscious in under a minute. Again, do you have a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/57 "2013-06-16T05:46:00Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > How did they sleep at night ? I would think they would get post traumatic stress syndrome. I think we need Tom Cruise to get to the bottom of it: TC: Aztec high priest, did you pull out Santiago’s still beating heart?! AHP: You want answers? TC: I want the truth! AHP: You can’t handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has temples, and those temples have to be manned by people with considerable gripping strength and yanking ability. Who’s gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the high priests. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don’t want the truth, because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that temple. You need me on that temple. We use words like “human sacrifice”, “sun gods”, “continued existence of the world”. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very universe that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said “thank you”, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a knife, and find a torso to dig around in. ---
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/58 "2013-06-16T06:28:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > So what was the origin of their sadism? Was it genetic? How exactly did they become sadistic before they “made up their religion.” > > As has been pointed out, the Aztecs were far from unique in their cruelty. Europeans at more or less the same time were burning thousands of people alive in public display, or executing them by disemboweling or other tortures. > > The Aztecs developed a cultural system that worked for them, at least for a time. They instituted a Reign of Terror that served to intimidate and subdue their neighbors and conquered peoples. They didn’t invent human sacrifice or other cruel aspects of their culture; these had been practiced in Mesoamerica for centuries before them. The Aztecs however ramped them up to levels not seen before. Come to think of it there may be a genetic component to their sadism, the current Mexican cartel violence and beheadings come to mind. Many Mexicans are descendents of the Aztec and Mayan (who were equally sadistic) people. I have several Mexican friends and I have seen them fight in street fights and they fight with a brutality and viciousness I haven’t seen in other groups of people. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/59 "2013-06-16T13:02:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Is anyone else reading the thread title and imagining someone being sacrificed by crashing them in a [PA-23](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-23)? No, and I’m even a pilot that’s been in that sort of Aztec. You got aviation on the brain, Johnny. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-human-sacrifice/660960/60 "2013-06-16T13:08:45Z")
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