Aztec human sacrifice

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@SchwaD_Vivre

I was a Spanish major in college and I remember reading a book called Aztec by Gary Jennings which was very informative and gripping. I recommend it to anyone interested in learning more about the Aztecs…

Seconded. Jennings’s Aztec is one of my favorite historical novels - big, well-researched and thoroughly readable. Jennings makes that argument that, as violent as Aztec culture was, in many ways it was no worse than the Spanish culture of the day (the conquistadors were even more systematically brutal in waging war than the Aztecs, and the Inquisition was no picnic, either), and in some ways quite a bit more advanced (Tenochtitlan, the Aztec capital, was bigger, cleaner and healthier than any European city at the time, Aztec herbal medicine was quite good, and Aztec arts and literature were highly advanced).

Depending on the kind of festival and the source of sacrificial victims, they were either willing or unwilling, but the priests were highly experienced with their obsidian knives and could have hearts out very quickly.

[DrDeth]

@Broomstick

Which sort of ignores that Chessman was signaling for several minutes… so cyanide causes sudden unconsciousness/death except when it doesn’t, at which point there is evidence it’s extremely painful.

.

Meh. The “signaling” was “blink and nod his head “ both of which can occur when the victim is unconscious.

[Broomstick]

Or he could have been fully conscious - I prefer to err on the side of caution here and assume until proven otherwise that execution is painful.

[matt357]

I don’t understand what made them think the gods wanted them to sacrifice thousands of people? Was there a Aztec bible?

[Sailboat]

@matt357

I don’t understand what made them think the gods wanted them to sacrifice thousands of people?

Maybe they drove in Washington DC traffic.

[smiling_bandit]

@matt357

I don’t understand what made them think the gods wanted them to sacrifice thousands of people? Was there a Aztec bible?

Don’t assume the primary purpose was really religious, although its hard to completely separate it from everyday life and culture. Human sacrifice has a long history in that part of the world, and the Aztecs in particular used it to dominate the neighboring tribes. And in a way they were clearly correct: their world would end if they couldn’t offer up the sacrifices…

[Colibri]

@matt357

I don’t understand what made them think the gods wanted them to sacrifice thousands of people? Was there a Aztec bible?

Are you really not learning anything from this thread? There was a long previous tradition of human sacrifice in Mesoamerica, and human sacrifice has been practiced in many places throughout the world. Read some of the links that have been provided.

[MrDibble]

@matt357

I don’t understand what made them think the gods wanted them to sacrifice thousands of people?

It wasn’t a uniquely aztec thing - it was culturally pervasive in Meso-america

Was there a Aztec bible?

Not exactly. Most of the traditions were no doubt oral. They had codices, though.

[matt357]

@MrDibble

It wasn’t a uniquely aztec thing - it was culturally pervasive in Meso-america
Not exactly. Most of the traditions were no doubt oral. They had codices, though.

So when they locked people in rooms and starved them to death, what was the motivation for that?

[Yllaria]

@matt357

So when they locked people in rooms and starved them to death, what was the motivation for that?

To make the magic work and keep the universe going. It wasn’t just one god that had sacrificed itself. So it wasn’t just one god’s sacrifice that had to be rejuvenated (or celebrated in gratitude). Different gods were associated with different things and with different times of year or even specific calendar days. Therefore different types of sacrifice were required.

[Guinastasia]

@Colibri

Are you really not learning anything from this thread? There was a long previous tradition of human sacrifice in Mesoamerica, and human sacrifice has been practiced in many places throughout the world. Read some of the links that have been provided.

What about ritual suicide, like seppuku? It was a pretty detailed ritual, and extremely painful. Or the Hindu suttee?

Hell, speaking of the Japanese, you want barbaric, try the Rape of Nanking.

[Colibri]

@Guinastasia

Hell, speaking of the Japanese, you want barbaric, try the Rape of Nanking.

Was that a religious ritual?:dubious:

[Guinastasia]

No, simply another example of how the Aztecs weren’t the only society capable of extreme brutality.

Suttee and seppuku could be said to be religious – at least the former.

[matt357]

@Yllaria

To make the magic work and keep the universe going. It wasn’t just one god that had sacrificed itself. So it wasn’t just one god’s sacrifice that had to be rejuvenated (or celebrated in gratitude). Different gods were associated with different things and with different times of year or even specific calendar days. Therefore different types of sacrifice were required.

So somewhere was there a Aztec holy book that said “you must lock up people, starve them to death, or the sun wont rise tomorrow” ?

[Broomstick]

Actually, MOST religions that have ever existed have not had a Bible equivalent or a Big Book of Instructions.

The Aztec books we know about contain records of sacrifices, how sacrifices were performed, myths, legends, and historical events but a “Bible” for the old Aztec religion never existed in the sense you mean it.

Actually, the Christian Bible doesn’t prescribe how to conduct things like a Catholic Mass, either - that all came later and is as much tradition as anything else.

[MrDibble]

@matt357

So somewhere was there a Aztec holy book that said “you must lock up people, starve them to death, or the sun wont rise tomorrow” ?

What? No, of course not. That’s be crazy!:dubious:

You need fresh ripped beating hearts to make the sun rise tomorrow.

You starve people to death so the Lords of Mictlan will keep up the transmigration of warrior souls into hummingbirds.

I can see how you might confuse the two…

[eightysix]

@matt357

The problem is Ballistic gel is much softer than real human flesh and it dosen’t take into account things like ligaments, ribcage cartilage or the the ribcage itself. In real life it would take more like 45 seconds at least, maybe more. Those Discovery channel “reenactments” are more made for tv than made for realism.

What is your basis for saying “45 seconds at least”? Do you have any relevant experience to back that up?

[Patty_O_Furniture]

@matt357

The problem is Ballistic gel is much softer than real human flesh and it dosen’t take into account things like ligaments, ribcage cartilage or the the ribcage itself. In real life it would take more like 45 seconds at least, maybe more. Those Discovery channel “reenactments” are more made for tv than made for realism.

I’m having a problem even with the 45 second figure. I remember all the animals I dissected in biology classes, and biological tissue is downright tough, fibrous material. I’m having a lot of trouble believing that an organ could simply be snatched out of a body in anything like 45 seconds using just your hands to reach in and do the job.

Try it with a raw piece of chicken or pork sometime. You can’t just tear it in half like a sheet of paper. In fact, given how bloody and slippery the whole ordeal would be, I’m having trouble accepting that it could be done at all.

The whole things smacks of psychic surgery (minus the feeling-better-at-the-end part, of course).

[MrDibble]

@Patty_O_Furniture

I’m having a problem even with the 45 second figure. I remember all the animals I dissected in biology classes, and biological tissue is downright tough, fibrous material. I’m having a lot of trouble believing that an organ could simply be snatched out of a body in anything like 45 seconds using just your hands to reach in and do the job.

Your hands and an obsidian knife. Which, I assure you, isway, way sharper than any scalpel you used in biology class.

[matt357]

@MrDibble

Your hands and an obsidian knife. Which, I assure you, isway, way sharper than any scalpel you used in biology class.

It would get dull very quick performing thousands of disembowelment’s a day and I don’t think it would be easy to resharpen as its a uneven, jagged surface.