# Aztec Sun Calendar
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 10, 1999, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650 "1999-08-10T05:01:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/21 "1999-08-10T20:05:00Z")
C#3 said:
> [@](#):
>
> He claims that the Aztec Sun Calendar predicts a confluence of events that will change the world as we know it. A new world conciousness will emerge, orignating from Central Mexico. He says that this is a pivitol time and that the actions we (as humans) take now will seal our future fate…etc…etc…etc…
So did he provide any hard and fast predictions, or just vague “entering a new age” kind of stuff? If the latter, then his claim of a prediction is pretty well untestable (if nothing happens on Friday, he can always say, “Ah, but it did happen – we are just not yet aware of it.”). If the former, it would amaze and astound me.
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### Author:  [@E1skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E1skeptic)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/22 "1999-08-10T20:40:00Z")
C#3, thanks for the tip on Art Bell’s. I’ll check it out. Now, regarding the Aztec’s supposed technological advancement ( **understanding and use of electromagnetic wavelengths** ), Mr. Mini is not specific about what kind of devices the Aztecs had (besides their own eyes) to make use of their knowledge. Is he?
I’ll listen to the interview, and let you know my thoughts.
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### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/23 "1999-08-10T20:43:00Z")
David, you skeptic you, **every** morning brings the dawn of a new age.
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### Author:  [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/24 "1999-08-10T22:34:00Z")
Hmmm… I have to fly to Chicago this Friday, the 13th.
Oh crap.
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### Author:  [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/25 "1999-08-10T23:18:00Z")
CKD: I dunno about that. I’m beginning to think every morning brings the dawn of _old_ age. 😉
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### Author:  [@E1skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E1skeptic)
#### Post date: [August 11, 1999, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/26 "1999-08-11T00:58:00Z")
C#3: I am (as I write this post) listening to the interview with John Mini, whom I’m not calling “Mr.” anymore, and the words that come to my mind are definitely not suitable for the GD board (see, Dave, I’m behaving :)). All his gibberish about the Aztecs, and his “experiences” among them are one of the BIGGEST pieces of misinformation (in lieu of a nastier word) I have ever heard about the Aztec culture.
It is a shame that this was broadcasted coast to coast in your country, giving an ABSOLUTELY wrong idea about the wonderfully interesting culture of the Aztec people to your people. It’s New Age propaganda in it’s full splendor.
I’m really disappointed, and a little angry, but, hey, everybody is entitled to blatantly lie, oops, sorry, I mean, …to express their opinions and (mis)educate others, right?
Shame on John Mini (and all the others like him)!!!
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Men will cease to commit atrocities only when they cease to believe absurdities.
-Voltaire
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### Author:  [@Contestant\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contestant_3)
#### Post date: [August 11, 1999, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/27 "1999-08-11T02:27:00Z")
E1,
Thanks for your feedback.
Hey, at least it wasn’t a total loss…you gotta admit that the RealPlayer/broadcast.com stuff is pretty cool! Right?
Hey did you hear that weirdo that called in and said that he was the second son of the second son and that he had recently been released fron San Quentin? LMAO!
Also, did you happen to listen to the beginning of the program (prior to the Mini interview) where they were talking about the Sun? If you did what did you think about that? I thought that part was MUCH more interesting!
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Contestant #3
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### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [August 11, 1999, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/28 "1999-08-11T04:22:00Z")
Let’s see …
The world didn’t end on Dec. 31, 999, as some doomsayers claimed it would.
The world didn’t end in 1917, when the Jehovah’s Witnesses said it would.
The world didn’t end 7 years after the signing of the Middle East peace accord during Jimmy Carter’s administration, when Hal “Late Great Planet Earth” Linden said it would.
## Why should this alleged Aztec prediction of doom be any different?
I’m not flying fast, just orbiting low.
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### Author:  [@E1skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E1skeptic)
#### Post date: [August 11, 1999, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/29 "1999-08-11T06:08:00Z")
Actually, C#3, I didn’t listen to anything else. The new Real Player is cool, though. Thanks. Regarding the part about the Sun, I might give it a try later.
Right now I’m getting ready to see the eclipse online. I betcha’ that’s going to be much more fun and interesting! Try this site:
[webevents.broadcast.com/exploratorium/solareclipse/](http://webevents.broadcast.com/exploratorium/solareclipse/)
Saludos.
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### Author:  [@nayaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nayaran)
#### Post date: [August 12, 1999, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/30 "1999-08-12T08:41:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The world didn’t end on Dec. 31, 999, as some doomsayers claimed it would.
>
> The world didn’t end in 1917, when the Jehovah’s Witnesses said it would.
>
> The world didn’t end 7 years after the signing of the Middle East peace accord during Jimmy Carter’s administration, when Hal “Late Great Planet Earth” Linden said it would.
>
> Why should this alleged Aztec prediction of doom be any different?
Because C#3 said so?
One of my favorite quotes goes something like this: “The worst thing about a doomsday prediction is the misfortune of living until it is proven false.”
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“Of course, that’s just my opinion; I could be wrong.”–Dennis Miller
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### Author:  [@Contestant\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contestant_3)
#### Post date: [August 12, 1999, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/31 "1999-08-12T09:12:00Z")
Because I said WHAT???
Defend yourself.
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Contestant #3
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [August 12, 1999, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/32 "1999-08-12T12:21:00Z")
I believe the implication is that you don’t have the “b.s.” filter and have a tendency to pass along unproven theories that have no basis in science and/or history, usuallu preceded by the phrase"I read somewhere…"
If I’m wrong, nayaran, just let me know.
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### Author:  [@Contestant\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contestant_3)
#### Post date: [August 12, 1999, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/33 "1999-08-12T13:19:00Z")
Implication my asstec!
He implies that I said doomsday was coming.
1. No, I wrote that I read that the dawn of a new age was coming (according to the Aztec Sun Calendar)
2. I didn’t agree or disagree with it, but rather asked what others thought of the information
3. Butt out Troll
* * *
Contestant #3
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [August 12, 1999, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/34 "1999-08-12T23:44:00Z")
Same as always, C3. Just waiting for the 3-count.
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### Author:  [@nayaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nayaran)
#### Post date: [August 13, 1999, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/35 "1999-08-13T07:59:00Z")
I wasn’t implying that you created this prophecy, C3. I just was mentioning that you were the first to bring it to our attention. Of course, the prophecy itself is as much BS as that of the Aztecs’ closest neigbors, the Mayas, who say that the world will end in December, 2012 (?). Besides, I like paranoid people like you. They are definitely the most fun people in the world.
With that, I give you slythe…
* * *
“Of course, that’s just my opinion; I could be wrong.”–Dennis Miller
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### Author:  [@nayaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nayaran)
#### Post date: [August 13, 1999, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/36 "1999-08-13T08:12:00Z")
One more thing, #3, the statement was meant entirely as a joke, like my first post about the end of the world coinciding with my brother’s birthday. Only after I sent the trollish statement did I realize that no one around here watches the WWF…
* * *
“Of course, that’s just my opinion; I could be wrong.”–Dennis Miller
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### Author:  [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [August 13, 1999, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/37 "1999-08-13T22:57:00Z")
Ten-To-One C3 will start raving about “pyramid power”, or something else from the Seventies, like pet rocks.
Just to anticipate the inevitable load of… psuedo-intellectual nonsense, the Aztec pyramids were built over 2500 years after the Egyptian ones. So if the big bad spacemen helped them , they sure took their time about it. The two forms of monuments aren’t even created for the same purpose: the Aztec pyramids were temples, the Egyptian’s were tombs.
Hey C3! Since you didn’t want the UFO transmission part or the Bigfoot carcass, how 'bout a gen-u-ine Jersey Devil call? It looks like a kazoo, sure. But blow it three times in the dark of the moon while dancing naked on the lawn of the Govener’s Mansion, and the Jersy Devil WILL APPEAR! Yes, it may be disguising itself as a firefly [in summer] or a snowflake [in winter] but I sure that this will be as convincing a form of evidence [to you at least] as all the other stuff you post. $15 billion in Confedrate cash will get it delivered to your door!
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [August 14, 1999, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/38 "1999-08-14T19:11:00Z")
I’m not sure where the the espousers of the 08/13/1999 date came up with it. I remember a similar question regarding the Aztec calendar on the AOL/SDMB last year, but the terminus date was December 12, 2008 (or 12/23/2013) or something–I’m doing this by memory). One of the recent cycles did begin on August 12, 3114 BCE, but that was not, specifically, an Aztec cycle.
The Aztecs had, actually, a multiple calendar system that tracked a 365 day solar year, a 584 day cycle of the orbit of Venus, a 260 day “reconciling” calendar that brought the other two calendars together in a 52 year cycle, and a 26,000 year cycle of the sun to which they assigned periods of legend. The last of the 26,000 year cycles that they had calculated ended early in the next (Gregorian) century. Several people have used this calculation to claim that the Aztecs predicted the end of the world on that date. However, my memory of the scholarly research on the subject was that that great turning was simply the point at which hey expected the cycles to begin again. (Since we know from the histories of the Olmecs, Totltecs, and Mayans that the Aztecs were not even around for the first several 26,000 year cycles, there is no real reason to believe that they were expecting the world to end at the end of their calculations.)
The next time I’m on AOL, I’ll see whether the links I found the last time are still in the “favorites” folder. (I haven’t always kept the favorites between my two ISP’s synchronized and I haven’t found the two web sites I used the last time.)
As to the general reliability of Aztec predictions (as opposed to their skills in calculationg calendars) I will note that they pretty well missed any relevant clues regarding Cortès.
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### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [August 14, 1999, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/39 "1999-08-14T20:15:00Z")
::: opening door slowly, looking outside cautiously, holding out hand to feel for rain ::::
Hmmmmm. Doesn’t feel like a New World Order.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [August 15, 1999, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztec-sun-calendar/16650/40 "1999-08-15T22:41:00Z")
OK. While not completely shot, my memory was hardly perfect. The following is the question and my reply on the AOL/SDMB. The most notable error is the fact that I was answering a question about the Mayans, not the Aztecs. On the other hand, some research on the EB and on the web leads me to believe that the Aztecs simply adopted the Mayan calendar without adding anything of their own calculations to it, changing a few gods and legends, but leaving the actual calendar just as they received it from the Maya.
> [@](#):
>
> {{{ In history class, my teacher was showing us a movie about the Mayans. The Mayans had a two wheel calender system which predicted how each day would be, and it was usually right. What bothered me though, was that the movie said that their calender predicted that the end of the world would come to an end on december 23, 2023 or something. Are they right?}}} HyPerSpiN7
>
> As you have probably noticed from the other responses to this thread, most thinking, skeptical people dismiss this sort of silliness out of hand. On the other hand, the real story is prety interesting in a rather perverse way.
>
> The Mayan Calendar was based on a 260 day year that fell within a cycle of months and years that did map closely to various astronomical phenomena. In other words, despite having a “short” year, the overall calendar could be used to predict the position of various stars,constellations, planets, and eclipses at any point over a several thousand year period. (The Maya got away with a short year because, unlike the Egyptians they had no flooding of
> the Nile that they needed to predict and they had no regular winter-summer phenomenon that would have made them think that 260 was too few days for a “year.”)
>
> Coincidentally, the several different cycles of the Mayan Calendar that can be traced back to 3114 B.C.E. come to a close on December 21, 2012. This is not a prediction that the world will end. It is simply a turning point to begin the next series of cycles. This simply means that if there are 260 days in a “year” and there are so many days in one kind of period and a set number of “years” in another kind of period, there will come a point where
> all the different cycles of days and years and periods actually wind up at the same point to start over.
>
> In the late 1960’s and early 1970’s (when a lot of people had decided that Western Civilization had gone down the wrong path and that certainly some non-Western society had found the real Truth–only to be destroyed by white European society) several people decided that the Maya was the society that had gotten it “right”. One nice feature about the Maya is their spectacularly accurate calendar. If your typical technophilic American wanted to
> dismiss the ancient wisdom of the peyote-chewing Indians, chanting Tibetan monks, incense-burning Indian gurus, or whoever, that modern American _had_ to be impressed by the mathematical abilities of the Mayans and their calendar.
>
> And if that calendar _ended_ on December 21, 2012 (by Gregorian reckoning), then maybe there was some special knowledge to be had from the Mayans.
>
> Of course, being crackpots, they couldn’t quite get it right. There is a big controversy between archaeologists and the true believers regarding the exact date. The more far out advocates of special Mayan wisdom hold that the cycle will roll on December 23, not December 21. They also decided that since the calendar “rolled” on that date, and since the Mayans had no astronomical predictions after that date, then that date must indicate the end of
> the world.
>
> The Mayan predictions related to their calendar have to do with planetary alignments. The Mayans did not predict the conquest of the Americas by Europeans, the two World Wars, or the atomic bomb.
>
> The Mayan Calendar is fascinating. There is at least one fairly good web site devoted to it (there are probably many more):
> The [Goto.com](http://Goto.com) search engine has this to say about it:
> "The following links relate to the Mayan Calendar and/or Cosmology as interpreted by various non-Maya, mostly north-of-the-border, folks. Some of these interpretations are pretty out there but you might find them interesting nevertheless. "
> [http://www.netshaman.com/MayanCosmos.html](http://www.netshaman.com/MayanCosmos.html)
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Tom~
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