# Aztecs & Conquistadores **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 26, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291 "2005-07-26T20:30:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/1 "2005-07-26T20:30:21Z")
Is it really true that, during the conflict between Cortez’ conquistadores and the Aztecs, the Aztecs would pour molten gold into the mouths of captured Spaniards? Is there any truth to the rumor that they initially did this with chocolate? Because man, that’d be a great way to go! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/2 "2005-07-26T21:22:31Z")
I’ve never heard this, and I took a few classes that exclusively covered Hernán Cortés’ conquest of the Aztecs. That was more than 15 years ago, so maybe new clues have surfaced that support this… …I tend to doubt it, though, simply b/c I doubt that the Aztecs captured that many Spaniards. Cortés and his men were first accepted, due to the good fortune if his arrival coinciding with the supposed return of Quetzacoatl, who was supposed to one day return on the exact year in a 52-year cycle. (Lucky, that). After that, it was basically a slaughter - the Aztecs were no match for men on horseback wielding crossbows, swords and axes, among other weaponry. (Loosely summarized): He demolished the Tlaxcaltecas, got the remaining soldiers to join forces with him and attack Moctezuma, then went on to slaughter everyone in Cholula, gathered more soldiers, then went on to wipe out Tenochtitlán and receive first Moctezuma’s and later Cuauhtemoc’s surrender. Oh, and in the years after that the small pox and typhus they brought with them decimated an estimated 75% of the Aztec population. I’d be more inclined to believe that the Spaniards were the ones doing the torturing, but if you were a soldier under Cortés would you really pour gold down someone’s throat, or would you keep it and run off? (That was actually a problem for Cortés - so many of his men tried to leave after obtaining gold that he burned down his own ships, stranding them in Mexico and forcing them to continue fighting). As for chocolate - I doubt that too. The Aztecs used cocoa grains as currency, and taxed them. Besides, the type of “chocolate” isn’t what you think - they used an unsweetened drink from the cocoa beans and drank it. So it would be an expensive form of torture, and it would be more like pouring unsweetened Ovaltine down your throat. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/3 "2005-07-26T21:37:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Besides, the type of “chocolate” isn’t what you think - they used an unsweetened drink from the cocoa beans and drank it. Right. Think the sauce used in many Mexican dishes—mole—only worse; unsweetened (and otherwise unadorned) chocolate can be quite bitter. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/4 "2005-07-26T21:38:49Z")
I have heard the story before, but it was not routinely done to prisoners. It was done to one particular conquistador who had an exceptional reputation for greed. He hungered for gold; they filled that hunger, permanently 🙂 . Offhand, I can’t remember the guy’s name. I have heard versions in which it was Indians who did it to a Spaniard, and I have heard versions in which it was Spaniards who did it to one of their own. The tales I heard were not about Aztecs, though. They were about Coronado’s expedition to what is now New Mexico, Texas, and Oklahoma. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/5 "2005-07-26T22:29:15Z")
I can shed some light, but not make a definitive SDGQ Answer The story is that it was the Jibaro Indians in 1599. It was in Logrono, Ecuador. Under the leadership of Anirula a force estimated by many at 20,000 warriors stormed Logrono in a night attack, killing every male inhabitant (some say the the number was 12,000), excepting the young women, and burning the city to the ground. The governor, Aldarete was killed by pouring molten gold down his throat “in order that he might have his fill of gold”. 2 cites [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08405a.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08405a.htm) [http://users.erols.com/tinajero/english.html](http://users.erols.com/tinajero/english.html) However, according to [this](http://www.aurelian.ca/index.php?c=cordillera) site the story is apocryphal, and can “_be traced to the pen and imagination of one Juan de Velasco in 1789._” So who are you gonna believe? I trust the Catholic Encyclopdia more as a source. However, the debunking sounds plausible and disquietingly specific - but is uncited. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/6 "2005-07-27T00:35:46Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > The story is that it was the Jibaro Indians in 1599. The story itself must predate 1599, since [this image](http://academic.reed.edu/spanish/courses/spanish_353/02s.html) of Indians pouring molten gold down a Spaniard’s throat (while a lurid cannibal feast goes on the the background) dates to Theodor de Bry’s _Great Voyages_ of 1590. The Indians depicted do look much more like Jivaro than Aztecs, however, ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/7 "2005-07-27T00:47:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The story itself must predate 1599, since [this image](http://academic.reed.edu/spanish/courses/spanish_353/02s.html) of Indians pouring molten gold down a Spaniard’s throat (while a lurid cannibal feast goes on the the background) dates to Theodor de Bry’s _Great Voyages_ of 1590. The Indians depicted do look much more like Jivaro than Aztecs, however, I looked at that image, then thought to myself “How do you know it was molten gold they were pouring down his throat?” Then I read the title. :smack: 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/8 "2005-07-27T01:24:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The story itself must predate 1599, since [this image](http://academic.reed.edu/spanish/courses/spanish_353/02s.html) of Indians pouring molten gold down a Spaniard’s throat (while a lurid cannibal feast goes on the the background) dates to Theodor de Bry’s _Great Voyages_ of 1590. From [this page](http://www.shu.ac.uk/emls/08-2/conngold.html): > [@](#): > > _Midas_, whilst clearly alluding to Philip II, is in some ways more closely concerned with the story of another Spaniard, the conquistador Baldivia. Baldivia was captured by the Indians of Chile and feasted by them and “the last service of all was a cuppe full of melted gold, which the Indians forced him to drinke, saying, Now glut thy selfe with gold, and so they killed him.” [23] The story of this modern day Midas was brought back to England in 1587 by George Clifford, the Earl of Cumberland. In 1586, Cumberland had financed a ship to sail to the Americas. On the river Plate the crew met the Portuguese, Lopez Vaz, chronicler of conquistadors such as Lopez de Aguirre, who told them the story of Baldivia. The ship returned to England in September 1587 with the story and it was printed in Hakluyt’s _The Principal Navigations, Voyages, Traffiques and Discoveries_ in 1589. [24] Lyly, with his connections at court, was most likely aware of the story. Theodor de Bry, the Flemish engraver, published a series of illustrations during the 1590s, one of which was entitled “The Spanish thirst for gold quenched” in which a Spanish captive has molten gold poured down his throat. Which pushes the story a bit further back. See also [this account](http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/jamestown-browsemod?id=J1063) from the early 17th century that includes: > [@](#): > > BALDIVIA A Spanish General being served somewhat Answerable hereunto in CHILY in the WESTE INDIES who being Surprised by the Indians enforced him to drink up A certain quantity of melted gold using these words unto him now glut thyself with gold BALDIVIA having there sought for gold as SICKLEMORE did here for food. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/9 "2005-07-27T01:41:06Z")
> [@Dooku](#): > > …I tend to doubt it, though, simply b/c I doubt that the Aztecs captured that many Spaniards. > > . They captured a number of them during the sieg of Tenochlitan (it was the spaniards who were besieged by the Aztecs, and they barely escaped, only to return later). I’ve heard the story about gold poured in conquistador’s throats (“you wanted gold? Here it is!”) but I’ve no clue if it’s true (I absolutely can’t remember the source and whether it was a reputable one or not) and I don’t even remember if the story refered to the Aztecs or the Incas. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/10 "2005-07-27T01:50:09Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > They captured a number of them during the sieg of Tenochlitan (it was the spaniards who were besieged by the Aztecs, and they barely escaped, only to return later). Do you know if that’s a recent piece of information that’s been gleaned? As in, sometime in the last 15 years? That version of events certainly wasn’t taught to me way back when. If possible, can you give me more details? How were the Aztecs able to besiege them? It must have been sheer numbers - but then how did Cortés return and conquer - since all of his men were stranded, he must have gathered more opposing Aztec forces from other cities… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/11 "2005-07-27T01:53:08Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > They captured a number of them during the sieg of Tenochlitan (it was the spaniards who were besieged by the Aztecs, and they barely escaped, only to return later). Hundreds of Spaniards were killed or captured during the _Noche Triste_ during Cortez’s retreat from Tenochtitlan, and most of those who were captured were sacrificed by the Aztecs at their temples shortly thereafter. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/12 "2005-07-27T01:54:31Z")
> [@Dooku](#): > > Do you know if that’s a recent piece of information that’s been gleaned? This has been very well known since the earliest chronicles. Read any detailed account of the conquest. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/13 "2005-07-27T01:56:47Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’ve heard the story about gold poured in conquistador’s throats (“you wanted gold? Here it is!”) but I’ve no clue if it’s true (I absolutely can’t remember the source and whether it was a reputable one or not) and I don’t even remember if the story refered to the Aztecs or the Incas. I should once again have read the whole thread before responding and avoid writing such an uninformed comment after the previous detailled answers. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/14 "2005-07-27T02:01:12Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This has been very well known since the earliest chronicles. Read any detailed account of the conquest. Huh. I must have had a bad professor. The only other conslusion I can draw is that my 15 year-old memory is faulty. Yep - bad professor. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztecs-conquistadores/314291/15 "2005-07-27T02:05:05Z")
[Here](http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/eurvoya/aztec.html) > [@](#): > > After courteous initial meetings with Moctezuma, relations between the Spaniards and the Aztecs deteriorated rapidly. Perhaps fearing that his company would become the next human sacrifices at the Aztec temple, Cortés seized Moctezuma and made him a prisoner. This stunned the Aztecs into submission and the Aztecs began collecting treasure as ransom. In the meanwhile Cortés left the capital to engage a military expedition sent by Velásquez to capture the rebellious captain. After subduing the forces sent by Velásquez, Cortés returned to Tenochtitlán to find that his Spanish troops had massacred an unarmed crowd at a religious ceremony thus **provoking a massive popular uprising.** > > Cortés turned to his erstwhile prisoner, Moctezuma, in hopes that the sight of their emperor would quell the enraged populace. Unfortunately, Moctezuma was struck in the head by a stone and died three days later. Cortés’ only option was to retreat to Tlaxcalan territory, **but during this retreat the company sustained heavy losses.** After regrouping, and being reinforced largely by enemies of the Aztecs, the Spanish returned to besiege Tenochtitlán in 1521. The Spanish and their allies blockaded the city, denying the populace food and water. An outbreak of smallpox further weakened the city’s defenders. Cortés finally pushed his way into the city and razed all of the Aztec buildings so that hardly a trace of the city remained. Bolding mine. > [@Dooku](#): > > Yep - bad professor. That’s the ticket. 😉