# Aztlan Will Rise. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 15, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340 "2004-03-15T02:06:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/41 "2004-03-16T04:17:31Z")
You know, I guess, if things hadn’t happened the way they did (“Manifest Destiny” and all that), then Dallas might very well be another Nuevo Laredo or somesuch today…and San Antonio would be the state capital of Tejas… …all I’ve got to say is, being a straight decendant of a signer of the Texas Declaration of Independence, **1836 didn’t happen by accident, and I don’t think we would have too much trouble repeating it…** ok, maybe that was tad harsh, but geez, if this guy’s trolling, he certainly pushed my buttons… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/42 "2004-03-16T04:29:21Z")
Could somebody please explain how Jews were behind Manifest Destiny? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/43 "2004-03-16T04:34:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Could somebody please explain how Jews were behind Manifest Destiny? The same way they were behind every bad thing to ever happen in world history, including the assasination of William McKinley, the Franco-Prussian War, the poll tax, “The Gong Show”, the professionalization of tennis, the discovery of Pluto, the French Connection, the War Between the States… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/44 "2004-03-16T04:45:35Z")
> [@Salvador](#): > > Jews will not be allowed to be a part of Aztlan. It figures this would come up. Same dog, different shit. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/45 "2004-03-16T04:52:07Z")
> [@Governor Quinn](#): > > The same way they were behind every bad thing to ever happen in world history, including the assasination of William McKinley, the Franco-Prussian War, the poll tax, “The Gong Show”, the professionalization of tennis, the discovery of Pluto, the French Connection, the War Between the States… I remember a Jewish joke I once read (one of the remarkable things about Jews is that they write most of their own ethnic humor): In Germany in the 1930s, a Jew was cornered in an alley by a bunch of Brownshirts. They demanded he answer the question: “Who caused Germany to lose the Great War?” And the Jew, knowing quite well what answer he had better give if he wanted to walk out of the alley on his own feet, answered, “The Jews!” The Brownshirts looked at each other in smug satisfaction. Then the Jew added, “And the bicycle riders.” The Brownshirts looked puzzled. One asked, “Why the bicycle riders?” The Jew shrugged. “Why the Jews?” ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/46 "2004-03-16T04:54:14Z")
> [@Governor Quinn](#): > > The same way they were behind every bad thing to ever happen in world history, including the assasination of William McKinley, the Franco-Prussian War, the poll tax, “The Gong Show”, the professionalization of tennis, the discovery of Pluto, the French Connection, the War Between the States… So I know the Jewish Chuck Barris was behind “The Gong Show,” but I had no idea that Tombaugh who discovered Pluto was Jewish. Perhaps you meant Uranus, discovered by William Herschel, whose father was Jewish? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/47 "2004-03-16T04:56:01Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Might makes right. Would you care to defend that statement? I mean, since it goes clean against the moral heritage (not the real-life behavior, but the moral heritage) of two millennia of Western Christian civilization? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/48 "2004-03-16T05:19:40Z")
Really Not All that Bright: I don’t know where you get white power out of my statement. I said I have nothing against jews as a people and nothing for them either. But I’m not a part of the tribe, I’ve had that shoved into my face pretty regularly by Israelis that I’ve met multiple times who won’t even make eye contact with me when I run into them on the street. Therefore I don’t see any reason to support their tribe. I’m perfectly willing to assimilate jews on a personal level into MY tribe however. Just as I will accept black people, asians, or whomever is chill with me personally. I like a whole lot of specific jews, I even married one, man was she hot 😉 she was Israeli. We’re divorced now but she’s still pretty hot and I still like her. about 60% of the people I spend the majority of my time with are jews. BrainGlutton: Well, I don’t believe in morality, morality is the justification that those in power use to excuse the fact that they are in power. I think a person’s right to own the land they inhabit depends solely upon whether or not they can continue to hold it. So you can argue that it goes against years of morality, but I think that’s mostly lies perpetrated by those in power to enforce a code of ethics that they don’t even believe in themselves. I do have personal ethics based upon pragmatic conclusions I’ve come to, like don’t steal from your friends they won’t be your friends for very long if you do. I could argue that a society completely permissive of stealing would be moral, because then it would be more like sharing where no one asks if they can share or not. Consensus doesn’t sway me much. [Matthew 10:34](http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT+10:34&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/49 "2004-03-16T16:19:24Z")
Of course, the real question about Aztlan is: What will their fajitas be like? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/50 "2004-03-16T16:31:49Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Do you perhaps know something we don’t? Are the Crab People coming? Is Roseanne’s left buttock going to continue to grow until it reaches infinite specific gravity and cause the universe to contract into it, thereby ending existence as we know it? Or are you just another one of these inbred paranoid schizophrenic white power dumbasses? I’ll admit it - that got me to laugh. 😃 _Slinks off in shame for having wasted precious time reading this thread_ ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/51 "2004-03-16T16:42:11Z")
Considering Salvador’s feelings toward his “Mixed Race Latino Cousins” in this [locked thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=245300), if Aztlan did rise, I doubt he would be welcome there. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/52 "2004-03-16T16:50:36Z")
I would like to reveal, because a couple of you have misunderstood it, that my list of “bad things” caused by Jews is a parody, and not meant to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/53 "2004-03-16T16:52:06Z")
Little does **Governor Quinn** know that most of them are true. And many others that are far too sinister for our puny brains to even comprehend… ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/54 "2004-03-16T17:16:18Z")
Ah, Sally’s been banned. I guess we never will find out about Aztlan’s fajita policy. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/55 "2004-03-16T22:45:05Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > In my experience ‘Mexican’ (a derogatory term by which I assume you mean either ‘hispanic’ or ‘latino’ but are too stupid to understand the distinction) 😕 If I called any of my Mexican friends “hispanic” or “latino” they’d be pretty confused. Mexicans come from Mexico and don’t mind being referred to as what they are. In my experience Chicanos frequently refer to themselves of “Mexican” as well, which is pretty inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/56 "2004-03-16T23:01:53Z")
> [@chula](#): > > If I called any of my Mexican friends “hispanic” or “latino” they’d be pretty confused. Mexicans come from Mexico and don’t mind being referred to as what they are. In my experience Chicanos frequently refer to themselves of “Mexican” as well, which is pretty inaccurate. The term ‘Mexicans’ when used as the OP was using it, is a derogatory term (IMO) that lumps in various latino peoples from Mexico, Central and South America, even Puerto Rico and several of the islands. I’ve heard this term used in this way many times, especially in the south. “Look at those lazy damn Mexicans!” pointing at a bunch of field worker from El Salvador. See what I’m getting at? No, Mexicans (of who I was one, being born in Senora) don’t mind being called ‘Mexicans’ (being as we are FROM Mexico after all), though I seriously doubt any of them would be confused being called latino or hispanic. Hispanic lately, at least among the more radical of my bretheren, has become a bit of a no no. More common now a days is the term latino to describe people of Spanish mixed decent. There are a whole slew of terms to describe the various mixes (like Mestizo…Spanish/Indian) that I’m not going to go into as its probably of zero interest to anyone on this board not born into the culture. Personally I don’t follow the nuances of the latest vogue term for ethnic groups, so I still think of myself as ‘hispanic’, and really have no idea why the term is now looked down on. Its probably the same process that Black people went through with the whole nigger, negro, colored, black, african american thing. I’m sure a lot of older blacks still think of themselves as ‘colored’ even though that term is out of vogue now. Btw, Chicano is another of those no no terms now a days (at least with the more radicalized folks) just a few steps up from the term spic (unless you happen to BE one…again, sort of like blacks calling each other ‘niggah’…you can do it if you are in the club, if not watch out). Said to the wrong person you might be in for a surprise. Just an FYI. -Xavior Tomas ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/57 "2004-03-17T07:41:45Z")
I grew up in New Mexico and most of my Mexican friends called themselves Mexican or Chicano. Mexican is a derogatory term for other latinos mostly because Latin America as a whole tends to be pretty bigotted against Mexico. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2004, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/58 "2004-03-17T08:20:30Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I’ll admit it - that got me to laugh. 😃 > > _Slinks off in shame for having wasted precious time reading this thread_ Hey, if you laughed, it wasn’t wasted, right? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/59 "2004-03-17T15:53:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Mexican is a derogatory term for other latinos mostly because Latin America as a whole tends to be pretty bigotted against Mexico. Naah, it only upsets us when some Anglo uses it that way because, well, we think those using it like that are being ignorant. And stateside, of course, there is competition for who is the official Latino top dog in each particular turf (e.g. Chicanos in the SW, Cubans in Miami, 'Ricans in NJersey, CT, the Bronx and Kissimmee, Dominicans in Manhattan, etc.) Other than that, at least around here in PR we think the world of the Mexicans. OTOH don’t get most of Latin America started about the Argies… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340/60 "2004-03-17T20:09:25Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Hey, if you laughed, it wasn’t wasted, right? 🙂 Some things are just - wrong - to laugh at; it is like paying two bits a gander to mock the antics of the obviously insane or developmentally challenged. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aztlan-will-rise/234340.md?page=4)