# B-17 and B-24 Bombers did the B stand for Boeing or Bomber? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689 "2007-05-11T14:19:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/1 "2007-05-11T14:19:06Z")
I mean at the outset. Later, in 1962, the DOD changed the nomenclature of military aircraft to make all more uniform, but at the beginning of the U.S. involvement of the war, what was the ‘B’ understood to mean? I’ve found reference to a Douglas made bomber that was called a DB-1. Yes, I’m having a dispute over this on another message board, all over the “Yes, I’ve been to Frankfurt before, but it was in 1944, and I didn’t stop!” joke. The latest version has the punchline altered to include mention of ‘Another Boeing Aircraft’. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/2 "2007-05-11T14:31:57Z")
> **[Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - US Military Aircraft Designation Systems](https://aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0012.shtml)** > [@](#): > > USAAF (US Army Air Force) system, adopted 1924 > > A designation consists of a letter (or set of letters) indicating the type and mission of the aircraft, and a sequence number indicating a specific aircraft within a category, separated by a hyphen. The number may be followed by a series letter to indicate a variant of an aircraft. Most aircraft are also given a proper name, but this is not part of the formal designation. > > Mission codes used in the USAAF system included the following: > > ``` > A = Attack > AG = Assault glider > AT = Advanced trainer > B = Bomber > BC = Basic combat > BG = Bomb glider > BQ = Guided bomb > BT = Basic trainer > C = Cargo transport > CG = Cargo glider > CQ = Target control > F = Photographic reconnaissance > FG = Fuel-carrying glider > FM = Multiplace fighter > G = Gyroplane > GB = Glide bomb > GT = Glide torpedo > JB = Jet-propelled bomb > L = Liaison > O = Observation > OA = Observation amphibian > OQ = Target > P = Pursuit > PB = Biplace pursuit > PG = Powered glider > PQ = Manned target > PT = Primary trainer > R = Rotorcraft > TG = Training glider > > ``` > > These codes were sometimes modified by one of the following prefixes, indicating a special status or modification: > > ``` > C = Cargo transport > F = Photographic reconnaissance > K = Ferret > R = Restricted operations > T = Trainer > U = Utility > V = Staff/VIP transport > X = Experimental > Y = Service test > Z = Obsolete > > ``` > > The first version of a type had no series letter; the second was suffixed with “A”, the third with “B”, and so on. To avoid confusion with the numbers “1” and “0”, the letters “I” and “O” were usually skipped. For example, the B-29A is the second version of the 29th bomber aircraft identified by the USAAF. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/3 "2007-05-11T14:34:33Z")
Deleted because **Johnny** answered more completely ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/4 "2007-05-11T14:40:57Z")
Incidentally, the Navy had a different [designation system](http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/usnavyattackdesig.html): > [@](#): > > For many years, the US Navy used a completely different aircraft designation system from the USAAC/USAAF/USAF. In 1923, the Navy introduced an aircraft designation system in which its aircraft were designated according to manufacturer, type, and model sequence by a sequence of letters and numbers. The system was also used by the US Marine Corps, which is a part of the Navy, as well as by the US Coast Guard beginning in 1935. This system continued relatively unchanged until the introduction of the unified designation scheme of 1962. > > The naval designation scheme is as follows > > (status prefix)(Type)(Manufacturer type sequence)(manufacturer) - (configuration sequence number)(special purpose suffix) The first letter was the type of aircraft. For example, A for Attack and B for Bomber. The second letter was the manufacturer’s code. My dad flew in AD-4N Skyraiders, the designation signifying that the Skyraider is an Attack aircraft made by Douglas. (Skyraiders were known as ‘Able Dogs’, which was an appropriate moniker since they were such capable aircraft.) The TBF Avenger was a TB (Torpedo Bomber) made by F (Grumman – F was also used by Canadian Fairchild from 1942 to 1945). EDIT: > [@](#): > > **B-17 and B-24 Bombers did the B stand for Boeing or Bomber?** > > I mean at the outset. Later, in 1962, the DOD changed the nomenclature of military aircraft to make all more uniform, but at the beginning of the U.S. involvement of the war, what was the ‘B’ understood to mean? Maybe the confusion over the ‘B’ standing for ‘Boeing’, etc. stems from the Navy system of using a manufacturer’s code in their designations? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/5 "2007-05-11T14:42:23Z")
[QUOTE=The Sonoran Lizard King] I mean at the outset. Later, in 1962, the DOD changed the nomenclature of military aircraft to make all more uniform, but at the beginning of the U.S. involvement of the war, what was the ‘B’ understood to mean? I’ve found reference to a Douglas made bomber that was called a DB-1. Yes, I’m having a dispute over this on another message board, all over the “Yes, I’ve been to Frankfurt before, but it was in 1944, and I didn’t stop!” joke. The latest version has the punchline altered to include mention of ‘Another Boeing Aircraft’. [/QUOTE] It was the NAVY that identified manufacturer in the ID mark of their aircraft in the WW2 period. As per Johnny’s example, in the AAC/AAF it was B for bomber. Right in the thread title there’s an example of a non-Boeing: the **Consolidated** Liberator, aka B-24. Another example is the **Martin** Marauder, aka B-26 (tip o’the crush cap to **David Simmons** ). See also [http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/usafbombers.html](http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/usafbombers.html) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/6 "2007-05-11T14:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=The Sonoran Lizard King] B-17 and B-24 Bombers did the B stand for Boeing or Bomber? [/QUOTE] It’s also worth pointing out that the B-24 was developed by Consolidated Aircraft, not Boeing. Curse my metal body, I wasn’t fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/7 "2007-05-11T14:47:08Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] Curse my metal body, I wasn’t fast enough. [/QUOTE] Me neither, on my edit. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/8 "2007-05-11T15:56:39Z")
Here is a list (in designator code order) of most of the planes ever in (or considered for) the USASC/USAAC/USAAF/USAF inventories. Running the list shows a wide variety of designations prior to 1923, including manufacturer codes, Army codes that included the Manufacturer’s initials, and simply apparently random codes or numbers. [2892 airplane names](http://www.marchfield.org/rouen01.html) A couple of DB-1 entries can be found on page 3. Note, however, that the designation DB-1 was the manufacturer’s code, not the military’s. “DB-1” was assigned by Douglas to their first bomber model after they changed their internal nomenclature. Douglas had been building bombers since the 1920s, but in the middle of the 1930s they changed the way they identified their own product lines with passenger/cargo planes getting a “DC” (Douglas Cargo) code (hence the DC-3) and bombers getting a “DB” code, hence the DB-1 and later DB-7. (The DB-7 did make it into production as the A-20 Havoc, but it was exported to Britain under the Douglas code as the DB-7 Boston. I do not know whether any of the models DB-2 through DB-6 ever made it off the Douglas drawing boards.) There is a photo of a “DB-2” on the internet, but I do not know whether it is a mislabeled DB-1/B-18B or whether it was an attempt to make a bomber out of the DC-3 that only had a couple of prototypes. The Douglas DB-1 was an odd bomber version of the DC-2. However, when the USAAC acquired it, it was identified by the military designation B-18 and I do not know whether the Army ever called any plane a DB-1, even during pre-purchase trials. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/9 "2007-05-11T17:08:01Z")
> [@](#): > > PQ = Manned target Wow, that’s one aircraft type I’d rather strongly prefer not to be assigned to. And, what exactly would a “K = Ferret” prefix signify? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/10 "2007-05-11T17:44:12Z")
[QUOTE=Billdo] Wow, that’s one aircraft type I’d rather strongly prefer not to be assigned to. And, what exactly would a “K = Ferret” prefix signify? [/QUOTE] I’ve found a couple of definitions for a manned target aircraft. One is an aerial target aircraft designed to be towed aloft by another aircraft and fired upon. I’m not sure if that counts as being ‘manned’ though. My first thought was that a manned target aircraft might be a version of an ‘target tow’ aircraft, but I’m not sure why such an aircraft would merit its own designation. I mean, it would basically need a releasable tow hook right? Interestingly, there was an aircraft that was A) manned; and B) actually fired upon. The P-63 Kingcobra existed in the RP-63A and RP-63C ‘Pinball’ versions late in the war. These were fired upon with lead-and-plastic frangible bullets that would disintigrate against its skin. Sensors would illuminate lights on its nose to indicate hits. ‘Ferret’ appears to indicate an electronic warfare or ECM aircraft. As I mentioned, my dad flew in AD-4s during the Korean War. He described it as an AEW (Airborne Early Warning) aircraft, and I never heard him refer to it as a ‘ferret’. But then, he was Combat Aircrew in the Navy and not the AAF/AF and AEW is different from ECM. Unfortunately I’m not as well versed on these particular subjects as I’d like to be. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/11 "2007-05-11T17:44:59Z")
AG=Assault Glider That cracks me up. I’m picturing a slow speed strafing run over the target, immediatly followed my the glider landing - because it’s a glider. I know they were used to get troops on the ground, but my version is more entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/12 "2007-05-11T17:49:39Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] The P-63 Kingcobra existed in the RP-63A and RP-63C ‘Pinball’ versions late in the war. [/QUOTE] I’m assuming that the reason they are not designated PQP-63 because they came about after the modification of the codes; hence, R (Restricted Operations) P-63. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/13 "2007-05-11T17:57:09Z")
Interesting thread. My favorite “huh?” is PG = Powered Glider. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/14 "2007-05-11T18:20:34Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] > **[Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - US Military Aircraft Designation Systems](https://aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0012.shtml)** [/QUOTE] Later, there was the RB-36. A version of the gigantic bomber designed for Reconnaissance. [About halfway down this page.](http://www.air-and-space.com/b-36%20variants.htm) (I spent some very early years on a SAC base, so I remember these monsters.) ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/15 "2007-05-11T18:37:40Z")
If anybody is interested in seeing some, there are a b-17, b-24, and b-25, [touring the U.S.](http://collingsfoundation.org/cf_schedule-wof.htm) I went and saw the b-17 and b-24 a couple of years ago at Moffet Field, and I plan to again this year. They are beautiful machines, even more impressive close up. You are able to crawl around inside as well. The men responsible for flying and restoring them were on hand and very happy to answer any questions. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/16 "2007-05-11T18:46:33Z")
[QUOTE=PBear42] Interesting thread. My favorite “huh?” is PG = Powered Glider. Huh? [/QUOTE] I rather like the “Bomb Glider”. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/17 "2007-05-11T19:29:38Z")
Another nail in the B = Boeing coffin is that Boeing did not make all of the _Flying Fortresses_. Boeing Aircraft designed it and manufactured most of them but some were made by Douglas. And to add my 2¢ to the Navy designation, the TBF was the designation for the _Avenger_ torpedo bomber manufactured (and designed) by Grumman, TBM for General Motors built _Avengers_. My dad was a crewman in them. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/18 "2007-05-11T19:57:32Z")
Jeez don’t you guys know anything? The B stood for **BOOM!** I got nothin ---
**Author:** ![Zambini57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4491bb/32.png) [@Zambini57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zambini57)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/19 "2007-05-11T20:03:39Z")
[QUOTE=DesertDog] Another nail in the B = Boeing coffin is that Boeing did not make all of the _Flying Fortresses_. Boeing Aircraft designed it and manufactured most of them but some were made by Douglas. And to add my 2¢ to the Navy designation, the TBF was the designation for the _Avenger_ torpedo bomber manufactured (and designed) by Grumman, TBM for General Motors built _Avengers_. My dad was a crewman in them. [/QUOTE] Another vote for B=Bomber rather than Boeing. The P-26 “Peashooter” was a Boeing aircraft, but designated “P” for “Pursuit.” ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689/20 "2007-05-12T03:04:29Z")
My thanks to everyone for your replies. Another ill-supported supposition shot down in flames. Ignorance fought. Sadly, mine, in this case. Pardon me whilst I go prepare a dinner of crow. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-and-b-24-bombers-did-the-b-stand-for-boeing-or-bomber/403689.md?page=2)