# B-17 Bomber Question: Safety of Ball Turret Gunner Position **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 27, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-bomber-question-safety-of-ball-turret-gunner-position/111112 "2002-05-27T23:45:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-bomber-question-safety-of-ball-turret-gunner-position/111112/21 "2002-05-28T19:26:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > …As far as the story of a gunner being trapped in the turret for a belly landing (which was also relayed on the History Channel), it seems a little ULish to me… Apparently not. Army Sgt. [Andy Rooney](http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent/1,12044,MLrooney,00.html) was there: > [@](#): > > …A call came in that one bomber’s ball turret gunner was trapped. Operating in the bomber’s belly, ball turret gunners rotated their plastic “cages” for maximum target capability. On this particular aircraft, the rotational gears had jammed and the gunner could not return to a position where he could exit into the plane. > > The bomber was losing altitude fast and would have to make a crash landing. Everyone --crew, observers, and especially the ball turret gunner – knew what was going to happen. The pilot ordered the crew to ditch everything to keep the plane in the air for a few more precious minutes, but still the wheels could not be brought down. “We all watched in horror as it happened,” Rooney writes in “My War.” We watched as this man’s life ended, mashed between the concrete pavement of the runway and the belly of the bomber." The site does not mention the specific plane type but it sounds right. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2002, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-bomber-question-safety-of-ball-turret-gunner-position/111112/22 "2002-05-28T23:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Threadkiller \* > \*\*Apparently not. Army Sgt. [Andy Rooney](http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent/1,12044,MLrooney,00.html) was there: > > The site does not mention the specific plane type but it sounds right. \*\* Not that I’m calling Andy Rooney a liar, but is there any corroboration of this story? What was the name of the deceased gunner? Are there any other accounts? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2002, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-bomber-question-safety-of-ball-turret-gunner-position/111112/23 "2002-05-28T23:53:31Z")
Highly unlikely that Sgt. Rooney ever actually knew the name of the deceased gunner, but here’s [conformation of sorts](http://rwebs.net/dispatch/output.asp?ArticleID=58): > [@](#): > > Wilbur Richardson, B-17 ball turret gunner and CAF Southern California Wing member, said _only a few gunners were trapped_ like in Rooney’s story. > Itallics mine ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-bomber-question-safety-of-ball-turret-gunner-position/111112/24 "2002-05-29T03:49:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SenorBeef \* > \*\* I know that because of the cramped space, typically your smallest guy would be the ball turret gunner. As far as switching positions, I’m not sure, but I doubt it… it’s better to become an expert at your area. \*\* My grandfather was a B-17 ball turret gunner(385 bg/549 sqd) during 1943, and from what I understand, was assigned the ball turret because he was a replacement(originally assigned to A-20 light bombers then forcibly transferred) and was only 5’6". I suspect that height had a lot to do with it in his case. He was also qualified as a flight engineer, so he got time as flight engineer in the top turret when the flight engineer got wounded. And… Tranquilis is right- that maneuver he describes was one that my grandfather described to a T- and also how he got one of his confirmed solo kills also. Definitely scary-bad place to be- Gramps had some hair-raising tales of the second Schweinfurt raid and a couple of others. ---
**Author:** ![Jeu\_D\_esprit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@Jeu\_D\_esprit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeu_D_esprit)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-bomber-question-safety-of-ball-turret-gunner-position/111112/25 "2002-05-29T04:47:10Z")
It is my understanding that both the tail and ball turrent gunners suffered more deaths and injuries because of the isolation of their positions. If a fighter pilot had a chance to plot or plan an attack, taking out one of these two positions would blank a large section of defensive fire from the bomber. Then other fighters could take advantage of the hole to bring the bomber down. I also understand that, as the war went on, the experience level of the average Axis pilot dropped. Coordinated attacks became harder to achieve and the relative casualty rates among positions in the bomber crews probably evened out (flak being notorious for not aiming at any one crew member). In any event, the bombers crews over Europe in WWII did a tremendous job that is often overlooked. If you compare the statistics of dead and wounded, you’ll find that the Eighth Airforce alone suffered more casualties than the Marine Corps did in all of the Pacific Theatre. My hat is still off for anyone who was in that war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-bomber-question-safety-of-ball-turret-gunner-position/111112.md?page=1)