# B-17 crash in Connecticut **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151 "2019-10-02T15:08:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/21 "2019-10-02T22:20:05Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > No one need worry on that account. There are many non-flying ones in museums. Curators might dispute the definition of “many” and tell you that, because of variations in manufacturing, and the extant planes’ differing histories, the destruction of any given aircraft can be a significant loss to history. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/22 "2019-10-02T23:44:43Z")
There are times I’d like to see Germany the way my father did… through a Norden bombsight on a B-17F. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/23 "2019-10-03T00:18:17Z")
I saw the posting, I had to wait to find out that indeed the person I went to high school with that does old warbirds in Western NY was not involved nor were any of his birds. my sympathy to the family and friends of the deceased, and prayers to those of the still living. Burns are hellish to recover from. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/24 "2019-10-03T02:00:29Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > [Up to five dead now.](https://www.khou.com/article/news/nation-world/world-war-ii-era-bomber-erupts-into-flames-after-crash-at-connecticut-bradley-airport/285-8fef55b2-4573-4a0e-81af-822fa3120467) Plane evidently failed to gain altitude after take off and attempted to return to the airport to land. Multiple severely burned victims. 10 passengers, 3 crew on board. A witness claimed to see the #3 engine fail. The audio from the crew referred to #4 engine. they wanted to return and “blow it out”. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/25 "2019-10-03T02:22:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The audio from the crew referred to #4 engine. they wanted to return and “blow it out”. I have no idea what that could mean. Running roughly? Bad magneto? No idea either about the aviation qualifications of the witness. For those who’ve flown aircraft like this, how many engines can go bad with a (presumably) mild fuel load, and only 2,000 ish pounds of payload, and still maintain positive climb rate and remain above stall speed? Two? Three?! ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/26 "2019-10-03T03:51:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The ones left flying can only do so because of intense maintenance, far beyond what they got in the war. Well, they needed - and received - fairly intense maintenance during their military service too. Indeed, I’m not sure I could nominate any military aircraft as a valid exception. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/27 "2019-10-03T04:17:09Z")
If you believe what you read on Reddit (and I’m shaky in that one), the cause of the engine issues was that the plane was mistakenly fueled with Jet-A. > [@](#): > > Source is someone close to the operation who I would prefer to not name at the moment. Fuel contamination also fits with the flaming out of both # 3&4 engines. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/28 "2019-10-03T04:22:38Z")
There is a concern going around on aviation boards, that the aircraft was mistakenly fuelled, at least partially, with Jet-A, and not the 115 octane aviation gasoline it should have been fuelled with. As there would be residual gasoline in the lines leading from the fuel tanks to the engines, it is conceivable the engines may have run normally up to, and through taking off. Only to experience successive engine failure as the Jet-A made up more and more of the fuel reaching the engines. Death toll is now 7. I understand there is another critical patient. Ninja’d, as you can see. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/29 "2019-10-03T04:23:36Z")
And this… > [@](#): > > I work at Collins Aerospace (formerly Hamilton Sunstrand) across the street from Bradley. I saw the plume of smoke around 10:30. It smelled like diesel. It still smelled like diesel in the area when I left work around 5. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/30 "2019-10-03T06:23:53Z")
That makes more sense than losing the airplane from a single inboard engine failure. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/31 "2019-10-03T14:30:43Z")
Many years ago, my mother’s cousin, a private pilot, crashed his small plane on take off in Israel after the airport mistakenly filled his tanks with jet fuel instead of avgas. He and his passengers survived, but the plane was totaled. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/32 "2019-10-03T22:20:57Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > If you believe what you read on Reddit (and I’m shaky in that one), the cause of the engine issues was that the plane was mistakenly fueled with Jet-A. While that’s certainly possible, planes like that tend to have a crew watching over it. It would take knowledge of the plane to fuel it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/33 "2019-10-03T22:45:48Z")
Isn’t there a label by the fuel tank that says something like "115 OCTANE GASOLINE ONLY’? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/34 "2019-10-03T22:48:20Z")
There was on the B-17 I took a tour of. Lots of airplanes have that sort of cautionary labeling, but misfueling accidents still happen. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/35 "2019-10-03T22:57:58Z")
CBS news said the plane hit approach lights 1000 feet out and they still haven’t found the cockpit. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/36 "2019-10-04T03:47:03Z")
based on the videos it looks like the plane made a circle back back to runway 6 but was 600 ft down and 1000 feet to the right of the beginning of the runway. It hit the buildings in line with Hamilton Rd. If he hit the landing instrument station then he was not lined up with the runway and may have been trying for the taxiway. At any rate, he was so close to the ground at that point that he could no longer turn left. He was probably on a 080 heading. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Elk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Anne\_Elk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Elk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/37 "2019-10-04T03:55:34Z")
I doubt any airport fuel guy could possibly put Jet A into a WW2 aircraft with 4 large round motors, besides I thought that the Hoover Nozzle made it impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/38 "2019-10-04T11:19:36Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > There is a concern going around on aviation boards, that the aircraft was mistakenly fuelled, at least partially, with Jet-A, and not the 115 octane aviation gasoline it should have been fuelled with. As there would be residual gasoline in the lines leading from the fuel tanks to the engines, it is conceivable the engines may have run normally up to, and through taking off. Only to experience successive engine failure as the Jet-A made up more and more of the fuel reaching the engines. Absent any other information, this seems unlikely. [This B-17 engine/fuel system schematic](http://www.airpages.ru/eng/mn/b17_157.jpg) shows pumps feeding the carburetors, along with return lines going back to the tanks. This suggests that there is constant circulation of fuel through the lines to/from the engines; if this is correct, then whatever the fuel blend was in the tanks, it would have reached the engine within a few seconds after startup. Even if this is wrong - if there was in fact no circulation of fuel to/from the engine - ISTM the tank blend still would have reached the engine fairly quickly. They were operating at a high power setting for a good five minutes before trouble was reported. The engines were rated at 895 kW each; at full output, I estimate they would each burn about 6.5 liters of fuel per minute. How big might the fuel line from the tank to the engine have been? 1.5cm ID, 3m long? That’s only 5.3 liters of fuel, so unless the fuel line is a lot fatter/longer, it would have been receiving the tank mixture in less than a minute after running up to takeoff power (this also disregards any lengthy startup/taxi time). ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/39 "2019-10-05T23:23:47Z")
This [YouTube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmnNO9dVGjg) offers comments about the B-17 crash. Starting around the 1-minute mark is this quote: “[The NTSB] mentioned that they did sump the fuel from one of the remaining wing fuel tanks, and they found 100-octane fuel - the correct fuel for that aircraft.” Note that “100-octane fuel” here means 100 LL\*, the only type of Avgas in any sort of widespread use today. The B-17’s engines probably used 115-octane fuel back in the day, but they would have long since been adapted to use 100 LL. - LL = “low lead” - which is rather misleading as it contains about 4 times the lead of leaded regular auto gas. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151/40 "2019-10-15T19:46:39Z")
[A preliminary NTSB report on the fatal October 2 crash of a vintage Boeing B–17 Flying Fortress in Connecticut includes evidence that the aircraft may have had trouble with more than one of its four engines.](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/october/15/new-details-of-b-17-crash-emerge) > [@](#): > > Some details in the report suggest the crew may have been trying to cope with trouble in two engines, not just one. Propellers attached to the No. 3 and No. 4 engines were found with blades in the feathered or partially feathered positions… > > A fuel sample recovered from one of two fuel tanks supplying the No. 3 engine was found to be free of contamination, the report states. There is no mention of fuel testing or contamination that might have affected any of the other engines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-17-crash-in-connecticut/841151.md?page=3)