# B.C. From Fundie Fun Time to Bigoted Asshole. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374 "2006-12-08T17:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/21 "2006-12-08T20:55:23Z")
I remember when BC was truly an excellent strip. But, due to the content of more recent strips, I’d have to agree that this latest one is another example of a good mind gone very bad, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/22 "2006-12-08T20:57:31Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] I wish I could see the world like **Blaster Master** and **Oakminster** do. It just seems to me that if he wanted to make a positive statement about mutual accord and harmony, he might have picked a less ambiguous marker than auto sales. Is it really the case that the number of Japanese cars we buy is the best descriptor of the nature of the relationship between Japan and the U.S.? [/QUOTE] I think the most solid part of our relationship is our economic one, not our societal one. For instance, what if he had said “A word seldom used with the popularity of Anime.” I imagine that instead of people being pissed about “waving shiny things” in our faces, they’d be pissed about him demeaning their culture. More importantly, a lot of his audience is probably ignorant, or is only slightly familiar with the term Anime,so the reference would be lost (just like the use of the word “infamy” would be on most outside of his audience); EVERYONE knows what Toyota is and knows that its a Japanese car. The only other thing I can think of is consumer electronics. What if he had replaced Toyota with Sony; would you still be as offended? I assert yes, because a Playstation 3 is everybit as shiny as a Prius (if not moreso). Let’s try an experiment. For the sake of discussion, let’s assume he was trying to make the point that Oakminister and I got out of it. Let’s also say he was aware that this wording might potentially upset people in the way it did you all. How would you propose he get that point across while remaining relevant to his target audience and somewhat subtle and not be ambiguous enough to be potentially offensive? Meanwhile, I think if the point was what you all seem to think, he could have easily done so with less ambiguity. Perhaps by using “forgotten” or even “used too seldom” instead of “seldom used” the offensive intent might have been more clear. Specifically, I think the use of the words “seldom used” implies “we don’t use [the word] because we don’t think of them that way anymore as demonstrated by [Toyota sales]”, rather than “we don’t use [the word] because we’ve forgotten what they did to us because of [Toyota sales]”. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/23 "2006-12-08T21:38:32Z")
[QUOTE=pool] Slight Hijack: I never get the thing about buying American cars. If they made superior vehicles as the Japanese do then people would buy them, but until they do why would we? [/QUOTE] Actually, that brings up another good point. How exactly are Japanese cars “shiny” anyway? I can see Italian cars being described as “shiny” but not so much Japanese cars. They are generally regarded, true or not, as being cost effective and reliable. I have a hard time as seeing a reference to Japanese cars as anything but positve for the Japanese and positive for the the American (other than the obvious “Why didn’t you buy American?” remark) for either making or desiring a cost effective reliable vehicle. The more I think about it, the more I’m confused by the OPs interpretation. It seems to me more like an a priori conclusion from a logic train similar to “he is a fundie, and fundies generally offend me therefore if I can interpret it as offensive he must have intended it that way or it must reflect his true feelings.” Even if it is how he felt, I’d be even more confused by his timing (relative to current events, the date is obvious), his motivation, and why, if he felt this way, hadn’t he expressed it much, much sooner? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/24 "2006-12-08T22:11:04Z")
[QUOTE=pool] Slight Hijack: I never get the thing about buying American cars. If they made superior vehicles as the Japanese do then people would buy them, but until they do why would we? [/QUOTE] The only thing I learned from this post is that the word “slight” has no meaning in your world. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/25 "2006-12-08T22:23:04Z")
☹ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/26 "2006-12-08T22:36:26Z")
[QUOTE=pool] ☹ [/QUOTE] I kid, I kid. Although, you can probably find that debate in a few threads on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/27 "2006-12-08T23:01:17Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] It just seems to me that if he wanted to make a positive statement about mutual accord and harmony, he might have picked a less ambiguous marker than auto sales. Is it really the case that the number of Japanese cars we buy is the best descriptor of the nature of the relationship between Japan and the U.S.? [/QUOTE] It’s a descriptor of how U.S. consumers are increasingly willing to buy cars from overseas, at the detriment of our own auto manufacturing industry and ultimately our own economy. The price of today’s domestic auto has to cover the retirement and medical benefits of thousands of retirees. Some of of them being WWII vets ironically. [QUOTE=Faruiza] "Americans never give thought to what’s really important ? [/QUOTE] I’m inclided to agree more with Faruiza basic interpretation of the cartoon, though not his reaction to it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/28 "2006-12-08T23:42:54Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] They had Toyotas before Christ? [/QUOTE] In B.C. they have Christ before Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/29 "2006-12-08T23:47:51Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] I wish I could see the world like **Blaster Master** and **Oakminster** do. It just seems to me that if he wanted to make a positive statement about mutual accord and harmony, he might have picked a less ambiguous marker than auto sales. Is it really the case that the number of Japanese cars we buy is the best descriptor of the nature of the relationship between Japan and the U.S.? [/QUOTE] Yeah. The fact is, our good relationship with Japan predates auto sales, and goes back to when “Made in Japan” was a perjorative term. The reason for our relationship is that Japan renounced militarism, not that we decided to ignore their bad points in order to import cars. Hart seems to be implying that the reason we no longer consider them infamous is that we import Toyotas, and that’s crap. ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/30 "2006-12-08T23:56:30Z")
I’m willing to admit that I hadn’t even considered the alternative interpretation that has been pointed out by **Blaster Master** and **Oakminster**. I’d like to point out, though, that I did consider that I was missing something about it. It’s a logical step to come to either conclusion, and I’m willing to concede the possibility that it really is as optimistic as you say. Art being open to interpretation most times… But I categorically deny that I reached my initial conclusion based solely on my dislike of Christian fundamentalists. I dislike them as a general rule to be sure, but I’m full of caveats to general rules. So to be fair to you, it might be more accurate to say, “He is Johnny Hart, and Johnny Hart generally offends me, therefore if I can interpret it as offensive he must have intended it that way or it must reflect his true feelings.” As for my level of offense, even though I dislike what the man has to say, it’s been pretty, “meh” up until this. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/31 "2006-12-09T00:12:12Z")
I think it’s a pretty clearly cynical statement. Reference to car sales in such a way just sounds like a nasty way to say something. And if so, then the OP interpreted it correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/32 "2006-12-09T00:13:40Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] I’d agree with this. I recall a Mad Magazine article from the 1960s called “Mine Enemy Grows Nicer” contrasting the villanous depictions of the Germans and Japanese during the war years compared to those 20 years later after they had become our allies and trading partners. [/QUOTE] Although I think Malcolm X had made the same point years earlier. > [@Oakminster](#): > > I dunno. I took the strip to be saying we’ve pretty much forgiven the past and are working together towards a brighter future. Nah. Hart wouldn’t have mentioned sales figures if he was saying forgiveness was a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/33 "2006-12-09T00:52:08Z")
To borrow a phrase from my redneck ex-brother-in-law: Ever since Hart _“went Christian”_, he lost his appeal to me. If he wants to be a “topical/political” cartoonist, fine, but when he uses the strip to preach, then it’s no better than a religious tract someone tries to hand me on a sidewalk. This comes from a former fan who named his teenage rock group “BC and The Cavemen”. Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/34 "2006-12-09T01:07:16Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Nah. Hart wouldn’t have mentioned sales figures if he was saying forgiveness was a good thing. [/QUOTE] If we were still mad about Pearl Harbor, we wouldn’t be buying so many Toyotas. ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/35 "2006-12-09T02:14:30Z")
I’m still interpreting it cynically based on the wording sounding so snarky, but I’ll say this: FUCK him for making it so AMBIGUOUS!! How dare he!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/36 "2006-12-09T02:14:58Z")
[QUOTE=Oakminster] If we were still mad about Pearl Harbor, we wouldn’t be buying so many Toyotas. [/QUOTE] And his use of “infamy” suggests that he thinks we should be mad. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/37 "2006-12-09T02:28:43Z")
Jonny Hart seems, from my recollection of him, to be much more sardonic than saccharine. I’m not inclined to think that the interpretation that he is simply remarking on how close we have come to the Japanese is really all that likely. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/38 "2006-12-09T03:06:22Z")
The only thing that saves this cartoon from being really offensive is that it’s so lacking in logic as to defy rational interpretation. There’s no connection between our imports of Japanese cars and the degree to which we remember Pearl Harbor. Nor is there any connection between our imports of Japanese cars and our _evaluation_ of Pearl Harbor when we _do_ remember it. We may or may not adequately remember Pearl Harbor, the servicemen who lost their lives there, or the sacrifices of veterans in the war that followed. But whether we remember adequately or not, _cars aren’t the reason_. There’s no connection between the two. Reading this is like listening to a drunk babble to himself on the bus–he probably _would_ be offensive if he were coherent enough to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/39 "2006-12-09T03:15:59Z")
The day _does_ live in infamy. There was still the observance at Pearl Harbor yesterday. And there was the irony, perfectly appropriate I think, of the Japanese pilots in attendance in what was described as “an emotional reunion.” Isn’t there something to be learned from those Toyotas, our German allies, the peaceful relationships with the North Vietnamese, our love of everything Italian? Many of you youngster will enjoy seeing Cuba someday. I was in my teens when it shut down. I’m sixty-three now. Will I miss it altogether? Enemies are not forever. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374/40 "2006-12-09T03:33:14Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] I have a relative who has survived torture and slave labor in Japanese prison camps in World War II. He is quite old. He hates the Japanese with a passion – he earned it watching the Japanese beat his fellow prisoners to death with baseball bats for entertainment. [/QUOTE] A friend of my Dad’s (who served in the Pacific) is the same way. Still hates the Japanese to this day and gets spitting mad every time the subject comes up. I think some members of the World War II generation will just never let it go. Hart seems to be one of those guys, even though he is a bit too young to have served in the War himself. (Maybe he lost a relative?) I agree with **Zoe**. Enemies shouldn’t be forever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-from-fundie-fun-time-to-bigoted-asshole/383374.md?page=3)