# B.C government= Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999 "2008-02-02T18:13:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/1 "2008-02-02T18:13:34Z")
Gambling has given our provincial government in British Cloumbia huge revenues. Casinos are popping up all over the place cutting into charities and their bingo operations. Yes, we’ve come a long way since the only big jackpot us Canadians could hope for was the Irish Sweepstakes. But our government wants a cut and control of every conceivable gambling operation and their latest foray into my community is way over the top. See, we have a small seniors organization called the Happy Wanderers. These people knit together and raise funds for their supplies. I’m not sure they could be classified as a charity, but they do knit caps for babies in Afghanistan. Now our government has declared their annual raffle yeilding a couple of hundred dollars illegal. Needless to say, everone I’m talking to is shaking their head. See [Campbell River Mirror](http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_island_north/campbellrivermirror/news/14805551.html) ---
**Author:** ![FarmerChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FarmerChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChick)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/2 "2008-02-02T18:34:25Z")
It’s been that way for years in Canada. I’ve been involved in sports, and every 50/50 draw or any other raffle we’ve had was illegal. we all knew that, so it was only word of mouth. You can’t advertise in the paper and expect to get away with it. The only way around that is to have a community group that is legal do the paperwork for you. See if you can get the Lions Club or Kinsmen involved. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/3 "2008-02-02T18:45:57Z")
[QUOTE=FarmerChick] It’s been that way for years in Canada. I’ve been involved in sports, and every 50/50 draw or any other raffle we’ve had was illegal. we all knew that, [/QUOTE] Really? So the provincial court judge\* who sold me a meat draw ticket at the pub once upon a time was doing something _naughty_?! To the stocks!!! \*oh, like I remember his name now… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/4 "2008-02-03T03:22:20Z")
I work for a non-profit community sports club, and we always get licenses when we hold 50/50s and raffles. It’s not very expensive, and you wouldn’t want to jeopardize your non-profit status by getting in legal trouble. From the Alberta Gaming and Liquor Commission [website](http://www.aglc.gov.ab.ca/licencingeligibility/default.asp): > [@](#): > > The Criminal Code (Canada) requires that groups participating in charitable gaming must be charitable or religious in nature and that the proceeds from charitable gaming be directed to charitable or religious purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/5 "2008-02-03T07:06:40Z")
BYAHH!!! Oh, my bad. I thought this was a sign up thread. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/6 "2008-02-03T08:03:02Z")
That’s just stupid. I’m not particularly crazy about how much government-sponsored gambling is already going on in this province, but honestly, back off. A freakin’ quilt raffle? Does the government not have other more pressing issues to enforce? I can only think of about a hundred. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/7 "2008-02-03T14:47:04Z")
[QUOTE=Waenara] From the Alberta Gaming and Liquor Commission [website](http://www.aglc.gov.ab.ca/licencingeligibility/default.asp): [/QUOTE] After reading that is seems like raising money to buy suicide vests for underprivliged jihadis is kosher. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/8 "2008-02-03T17:03:17Z")
Or halal. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FarmerChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FarmerChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChick)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/9 "2008-02-03T17:16:37Z")
My favorite draws were always for the big motherfuxtoring Texas Mickey. I would buy those tickets by the dozen. A quilt? Notsomuch. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/10 "2008-02-04T05:42:08Z")
Well, to start with, it’s not the province of B.C. that has made the policy decision here, it’s the federal Parliament. The [Criminal Code](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_VI::bo-ga:l_VII//en?page=5&isPrinting=false#codese:206) makes it an offence to conduct a lottery: > [@](#): > > \*\*Offence in relation to lotteries and games of chance > > 206.\*\* (1) Every one is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years who > > (a) makes, prints, advertises or publishes, or causes or procures to be made, printed, advertised or published, any proposal, scheme or plan for advancing, lending, giving, selling or in any way disposing of any property by lots, cards, tickets or any mode of chance whatever; > > (b) sells, barters, exchanges or otherwise disposes of, or causes or procures, or aids or assists in, the sale, barter, exchange or other disposal of, or offers for sale, barter or exchange, any lot, card, ticket or other means or device for advancing, lending, giving, selling or otherwise disposing of any property by lots, tickets or any mode of chance whatever; At the same time, Parliament has recognised that local community groups use lotteries to raise money for charitable purposes, and has provided a specific [exemption](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_VI::bo-ga:l_VII//en?page=5&isPrinting=false#codese:207) for them: > [@](#): > > Permitted lotteries > > 1. (1) Notwithstanding any of the provisions of this Part relating to gaming and betting, it is lawful > … > (b) for a charitable or religious organization, pursuant to a licence issued by the Lieutenant Governor in Council of a province or by such other person or authority in the province as may be specified by the Lieutenant Governor in Council thereof, to conduct and manage a lottery scheme in that province if the proceeds from the lottery scheme are used for a charitable or religious object or purpose; This isn’t anything new. These provisions have been in the _Criminal Code_ for years. Any group that runs a lottery without a licence is in breach of the law. As for why the Province has raised the issue, well, it’s the law. The provinces are required to enforce the _Criminal Code_. If a community group wants to raise money by a lottery, it has to comply with the law. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/11 "2008-02-04T17:43:15Z")
Of all the criminal things B.C. legislators have been involved in over the past few decades, this rant scores a minus 15 on the worthwhility scale. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/12 "2008-02-04T19:05:18Z")
What’s the big deal? Requiring a raffle permit hardly makes the government the Mafia. ---
**Author:** ![FarmerChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FarmerChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/13 "2008-02-04T22:29:07Z")
I guess the flying dutchman doesn’t like our replies. He seems to have bailed on his lame pitting. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/14 "2008-02-04T22:30:08Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Needless to say, everone I’m talking to is shaking their head. [/QUOTE] Everyone who reads your threads also shakes their heads. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/15 "2008-02-04T23:51:27Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] What’s the big deal? Requiring a raffle permit hardly makes the government the Mafia. [/QUOTE] We are talking about a very small bunch of fixed income old ladies who like to knit together. Their annual raffle yields a couple of hundred dollars so they can purchase supplies. It isn’t just a raffle permit which costs $28.00(small change hey Mr. Lawyer). You can’t even buy a permit unless you are a registered charity which requires even more money and maybe a lawyer or accountant to negotiate the hoops and then you’re forever accountable to the government. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/16 "2008-02-04T23:54:30Z")
[QUOTE=FarmerChick] I guess the flying dutchman doesn’t like our replies. He seems to have bailed on his lame pitting. [/QUOTE] If this pit is so lame why have you posted and then posted again ? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/17 "2008-02-05T03:49:42Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] It isn’t just a raffle permit which costs $28.00(small change hey Mr. Lawyer). [/QUOTE] [No, that is not true.](http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/gaming/licences/classD.htm#two) Such a permit is only $10.00. [QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] You can’t even buy a permit unless you are a registered charity which requires even more money and maybe a lawyer or accountant to negotiate the hoops and then you’re forever accountable to the government. [/QUOTE] [No, that is not true.](http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/gaming/licences/classD.htm#two) Any group of three people can apply for such a permit. The group does not have to be registered as a not-for-profit society, or as a charity, or as a corporation. There is neither a requirement for, nor a need for, a lawyer or an accountant, for there are no hoops – just a simple on-line application and a $10 fee. Hardly the stuff of Mafia. [QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] B.C government= Mafia [/QUOTE] No, that is not true. As \*\*Northern Piper \*\* has already pointed out to you, the criminality of unregulated gambling was set by the Canadian government, not the British Columbia government. **The Flying Dutchman** , why did you make these things up rather than base your rant on actual facts? Why did you not not bother to check the procedure for small raffles before spewing your little balls of deficate derision at your bewildered adversaries? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/18 "2008-02-05T04:00:25Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] If this pit is so lame why have you posted and then posted again ? [/QUOTE] Just fighting ignorance, but with you it is taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/19 "2008-02-05T04:30:23Z")
“Sometimes, ignorance fights back.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999/20 "2008-02-05T06:11:44Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] [No, that is not true.](http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/gaming/licences/classD.htm#two) Such a permit is only $10.00. [quote] From [Lotteries Gaming and Betting (Raffles and Bingo Permits) (Amendment) Regulations 1996 S.R. No. 117/1996](http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:nDUK0So1-hYJ:www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubStatbook.nsf/0/4204205326F29EECCA256E5B0021A33A/%24FILE/96-117sr.pdf+raffle+permit+british+columbia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ca) > [@](#): > > 1. Fee for an application for the issue of a consent to conduct a raffle After regulation 14 of the Lotteries Gaming and Betting (Raffles and Bingo Permits) Regulations 1992 insert— “15. Consent fee For the purposes of section 6(1AA)(e) of the Act, the prescribed fee is $28.00.” > [@](#): > > [No, that is not true.](http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/gaming/licences/classD.htm#two) Any group of three people can apply for such a permit. If you go back to my local newspaper link, [quote] Other community groups hoping to fundraise with raffles and 50/50 draws, beware – only registered charities are allowed to hold such events. [quote] > [@](#): > > The group does not have to be registered as a not-for-profit society, or as a charity, or as a corporation. I repeat my previous statement. > [@](#): > > There is neither a requirement for, nor a need for, a lawyer or an accountant, for there are no hoops – just a simple on-line application and a $10 fee. Hardly the stuff of Mafia. [Application](http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t2050/t2050-01e.pdf') Simple? I have a business and do my own bookwork and income tax, but I wouldn’t want to wade through this bullshit. You expect little old ladies to be computer savvy? The reaction of these women bears this out. They won’t be doing raffles any more > [@](#): > > No, that is not true. As \*\*Northern Piper \*\* has already pointed out to you, the criminality of unregulated gambling was set by the Canadian government, not the British Columbia government. I’m not concerned about criminality. Besides, sometimes the law is an ass. i’m ranting on the enforcement. You know damn well, there is discretion in law enforcement In a lot of cases the cops require a complaint from the public before they’ll act. In this case we are paying for people to shut down little old ladies who like to knit. [quote] **The Flying Dutchman** , why did you make these things up rather than base your rant on actual facts? [quote] Lookl, I just pointed out two clear errors on your part plus a lack of judgement on the hoops you have to go through to get registered. I backed this up. Don’t go fucking telling me I made this up. Perhaps part of your problem iis that you’re out of your jurisdiction. > [@](#): > > Why did you not not bother to check the procedure for small raffles before spewing your little balls of deficate derision at your bewildered adversaries? Back at ya [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-c-government-mafia/435999.md?page=2)